Curiosity as a Superpower: Jon Bassford on Leading Change Through Inquiry
Curiosity serves as the central theme of our discourse today, exemplified by our esteemed guest, Jon Bassford, whose career is a testament to the profound impact of this trait. As an operations professional and entrepreneur, John's unwavering desire to learn and innovate has propelled him through diverse ventures, ranging from startups to global nonprofits. He articulates that curiosity is not merely a personal attribute but rather a dynamic force that fosters organizational growth and adaptation. Throughout our conversation, we explore how Jon's curiosity-driven leadership has facilitated transformative changes within various organizations, emphasizing the critical importance of inquiry in challenging the status quo and enhancing operational efficacy. As we delve into his experiences and insights, we invite listeners to reflect on the value of curiosity in their own professional journeys and to consider how fostering this mindset can lead to significant breakthroughs.
Takeaways:
- Jon Bassford exemplifies the notion that curiosity is not merely a trait, but rather a formidable superpower that can drive innovation and growth.
- Throughout his career, Jon has harnessed an insatiable desire to learn, explore, and improve, which has propelled him into diverse roles in startups and nonprofits.
- His experiences demonstrate that curiosity-driven leadership fosters an environment where organizations can adapt, innovate, and thrive in rapidly changing landscapes.
- Curiosity should be cultivated within teams through psychological safety, allowing individuals to voice their ideas without fear of judgment or repercussions.
Transcript
Today's guest is someone who proves that curiosity isn't just a trait, it's a superpower.
Speaker A:John Basford is an operations professional and entrepreneur whose career has been fueled by an insatiable desire to learn, explore, and improve.
Speaker A:After law school, John took up a bold leap in the world of startups and global nonprofits, where he launched, led, and transformed operations with impact.
Speaker A:Whether he's streaming a system or mentoring teams, John's curiosity driven leadership has helped organizations innovate, adapt, and grow.
Speaker A:He's known for asking the right questions, challenging assumptions, and building bridges between ideas and execution.
Speaker A:For John, curiosity isn't just a mindset, it's a movement.
Speaker A:So when you're ready to be inspired by someone who turns wonder into wisdom and questions into breakthroughs, you're in for a treat.
Speaker A:Please welcome the ever curious John Basford to the podcast.
Speaker A:Welcome, John.
Speaker A:How you doing today?
Speaker B:I'm doing great.
Speaker B:Thanks for having me.
Speaker A:Good to have you on, my friend.
Speaker A:So I'm going to ask you my favorite question.
Speaker A:What's the best piece of advice you've ever received?
Speaker B:Best piece of advice?
Speaker B:I'm gonna quote the great Dallas philosopher Ted Lasso and say, be curious, not judgmental.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:Like, I like Ted Lasso.
Speaker A:The first season was great.
Speaker A:Second season got kind of.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Me and my wife are both big fans of it.
Speaker B:And I think he.
Speaker B:I think.
Speaker B:I think in the show, he misquotes that being from Walt Whitman, which I don't think has ever been confirmed.
Speaker B:But it's a great quote.
Speaker B:Right, because there's.
Speaker B:There's a.
Speaker B:There's an aspect of curiosity that you're.
Speaker B:Again, you're questioning things.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:You're looking into things, you're going deeper, and if you do it with a judgmental mindset, it's off putting.
Speaker B:But if you truly do it from a curiosity standpoint, it makes everything a lot easier.
Speaker A:Yeah, I kind of approach that with a lot of organizational things.
Speaker A:I do, too.
Speaker A:I look at it and go like, we can either work inside the box, we can, you know, adapt the box, or we can just blow the box up and start over again.
Speaker A:So I'm kind of more like, let's blow the box up.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah, 100%.
Speaker B:I. I spent my career leading change even before I even realized that's what I was doing early on in my career.
Speaker B:And, you know, I certainly have learned there.
Speaker B:There's.
Speaker B:There's some good ways and bad ways to do some change, and sometimes it does take a sledgehammer.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And other times that sledgehammer makes things foot off the rails, right?
Speaker A:Exactly, exactly.
Speaker A:I'm curious, John, as you think about your journey, who are some people in your life who serv a mentor or inspiration for you along the way?
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker B:So a couple people come to mind.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I don't think I've ever had that, that one pinnacle person, that role model, that mentor I've had, but I've had them throughout my career.
Speaker B:Certainly the first boss that I.
Speaker B:Significant boss that I had in my early on in my career, he allowed me to be curious.
Speaker B:He allowed me to take on new challenges.
Speaker B:He allowed me to, if I go to him, say, hey, look, I see we're doing this over here.
Speaker B:I think this is the wrong way to do it.
Speaker B:Can I do something else?
Speaker B:Sure, go ahead, you know, take a look at it, like, see if you can improve it, you know.
Speaker B:So he was a great leader in allowing me to grow my professionalism and grow in my career.
Speaker B:Was also just a good friend and personal mentor.
Speaker B:And throughout my journey as well, I've worked with a number of coaches and personal development type people in my life and they've all had a little impact, right?
Speaker B:They've.
Speaker B:They've all contributed to, to various aspects of my growth.
Speaker A:I love that.
Speaker A:So you describe yourself as curiosity, as a superpower.
Speaker A:Can you share a moment in your life where curiosity led to kind of a breakthrough in something?
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker B:So, you know, in my career, you know, one of the best examples is, is early on in my career, actually my, I literally went on a training trip for the organization I was working for.
Speaker B:So after law school, I end up working for a, a legal organization as a member of a law school.
Speaker B:And my, my job was to travel the country and train these law school chapter leaders on, on the right ways to, to run their chapters and help them improve.
Speaker B:And I was on a training trip with, with a predecessor.
Speaker B:And you know, I'm being told what to tell these leaders, but I couldn't find it anywhere.
Speaker B:Like, there's nothing written down.
Speaker B:Like we, we.
Speaker B:There are specifics, right?
Speaker B:Like, like the organization was built around.
Speaker B:They have to do this much programming, do things by this date, this time.
Speaker B:All of these things that were laid out to a T. And I'm being told that I'm like, but, but where is this loc.
Speaker B:Where's a manual?
Speaker B:Where can I point them to this?
Speaker B:So I went back, you know, armed with my curiosity and said, hey, like, where is this located?
Speaker B:You're telling me to tell people this, but I want to show them.
Speaker B:And he's like, oh, it's buried in the back of a conference manual.
Speaker B:And I was like, so if I don't go to a conference, will I ever see this, this document?
Speaker B:The answer was no.
Speaker B:If I leave my manual at conference where I receive it, again, the answer was no.
Speaker B:So I asked a simple question, can I change that?
Speaker B:So I took this document that was buried in the back of a manual, made it a front and back, you know, one pager PDF and it became the lifeblood of everything I did.
Speaker B:When I talked to them about their programming, I mentioned this document.
Speaker B:When I talked to them about their, their recruiting period, I mentioned this document.
Speaker B:And because of that, bringing this document to the forefront and having a good communication strategy around that, we saw a 20% increase in membership and revenue, we saw 500% increase in programming, and we had record breaking attendance at all of our events following all because I dared to ask that one little question of where is this located?
Speaker B:And then on the flip side of this, on my personal life, curiosity has driven that as well.
Speaker B:For me.
Speaker B:I got the privilege to go to Europe while I was in high school.
Speaker B:I studied in Washington D.C. while I was an undergrad.
Speaker B:I've taken on jobs, left an established job where I was building a career and went and worked for a startup that, you know, take some curiosity.
Speaker B:You have to see the through line.
Speaker B:You have to see what that move could do for your career and advancement.
Speaker B:And you know, curiosity has really always been a through line throughout my life and my career.
Speaker A:So I have to ask this question.
Speaker A:We always talk about leadership.
Speaker A:Are leaders born or are they created?
Speaker A:So is your curiosity born in you or did somehow you just develop that curiosity over time?
Speaker B:So to answer the question, I think it's a little bit of both, right?
Speaker B:For leadership.
Speaker B:I think leadership leaders can be, be made and also innate.
Speaker B:For me, curiosity is very much innate.
Speaker B:I was that kid growing up who, you know, hung around with the adults during family reunions and talk to them, learn, you know, ask questions and learn about people's experiences, their jobs, what they did for a living, all that type of stuff.
Speaker B:And probably even, you know, I was one of those kids who was always told from an early age that I was going to be a lawyer.
Speaker B:Not necessarily the best trait sometimes.
Speaker B:That's usually because you're a little bit of a pain in the ass sometimes.
Speaker B:And because you're willing to ask questions, right, you're willing to challenge the status quo, you're willing to push back a little bit, right?
Speaker B:Again, not, not in a disrespectful way.
Speaker B:But you know, in a world of, of you know, be seen, not heard that that can be off putting.
Speaker B:So like it's always been there for me, like it truly has been an innate skill.
Speaker B:I just, I walk into situations personally, professionally and I'm like how can we make this better?
Speaker B:You know, even, you know, here in D.C. when I used to drive the metro, ride the metro into work, like I would memorize where a train would stop and where that would put where the doors would open up so I could get on the right door to time it to where I got off right by the escalator every time.
Speaker B:Like, like I, I just do things like that, right?
Speaker B:Like I'm like that's where my mind works.
Speaker B:Like how can I shorten my, my walk by 20 seconds by timing which door I get on on the Metro.
Speaker B:So that's, that's just kind of a little bit of how my brain works.
Speaker A:So you're the kid that if you left the clock by you we come back, it'd be all taken apart.
Speaker A:Would you put it back together?
Speaker B:I'm not the handy person that, that so, so I, I'm, I'm more the more thought leadership, you know, person in process and procedures.
Speaker B:You know, actually I talk about in my, my TEDx I shot back in February in Charlotte, the theme on that was the DIY dilemma.
Speaker B:And like from a guy from the Midwest, like I am not a handy person and, and that's basically blasphemy, right?
Speaker B:Being from Decatur, Illinois and, and not being someone who likes to work with their hands and do contracting work and, and mow the grass, that sort of stuff.
Speaker B:So that I'm more on the, on the operation side of things.
Speaker A:So you're the second famous guy from Decatur.
Speaker A:You and Richard Pryor, right?
Speaker B:Is Richard Pryor for Decatur?
Speaker A:I think so.
Speaker B:That'd be true.
Speaker B:So we're also the original home of the Chicago Bears.
Speaker B:They used the Chicago Bears before they were the Chicago Bears were the Decatur Staleys.
Speaker A:Little known fact, football trivia.
Speaker A:So let's talk about after law school.
Speaker A:You took a non traditional path into operations and entrepreneurship.
Speaker A:What sparked that pivot in your career?
Speaker B:Yeah, so you know, it kind of fell in my lap.
Speaker B:You know, when I went to law school there was nothing on my radar whatsoever that said, hey John, why don't you go work for a, a non profit association.
Speaker B:You're a member in law school.
Speaker B:But quite frankly, you know, I enjoyed law school for the education part of it.
Speaker B:I mean it's a, it's an Educational experience like none other.
Speaker B:But I wasn't quite sure what I want to do with it.
Speaker B:And while, while trying to figure that out, I got this job offer.
Speaker B:I was, I'm from the Midwest.
Speaker B:My, my goal was to move to dc.
Speaker B:This job offer offer was in Baltimore, like close enough for now.
Speaker B:So I spent six years up there and it just kind of, once I got into working for this organization, I learned I had a knack for association work.
Speaker B:And then as I grew in my, in this role, I started taking on more, more operational role.
Speaker B:Governance, budget, staff, management, culture, all of these things.
Speaker B:I'm like, that's the direction I want to go in my next move.
Speaker B:So my very next job it was, it was down in dc, so it got me down to dc, but also was, it was a tech trade association that was a startup that worked with startups.
Speaker B:So it allowed me to really grow while the organization grew and really honed my skills and also gave me this additional insight into being an operations person.
Speaker B:Because I built everything.
Speaker B:I didn't just come into a situation where everything was up and running and working smoothly, smoothly.
Speaker B:I had to figure it out like we had to figure it out as an organization.
Speaker B:And so it really kind of helped build that base for me.
Speaker B:And quite frankly, I think how it fits with my, my personality and skill sets is obviously we're talking about the, the, the analytical side of things and asking the right questions and breaking things down and process of procedures.
Speaker B:I'm also kind of a jack of all trades in an operations role.
Speaker B:You have to know a little bit about a lot of things in order to know how to ask the right questions, to go to the right places, to find the answers.
Speaker B:And so those, those really aspects, you know, fit me, who I am, to my core.
Speaker A:So let's, let's dig into some definitions for those who may or not have heard of this term before.
Speaker A:Kind of define for us what is curiosity driven leadership and how do you see that as being so critical in today's organizations?
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker B:So for me, kind of at a base level, it's having this intention of looking beyond our current situations, limitations, and the world around us.
Speaker B:I mean, it's an old adage, right?
Speaker B:The only constant is change.
Speaker B:Everything is moving quickly.
Speaker B:AI.
Speaker B:You can't open a newspaper, turn on tv, look online without seeing something about AI, right?
Speaker B:It's moving so quickly.
Speaker B:It's moving way quicker even than the Internet did when it first came out.
Speaker B:Things are constantly changing and if you are not curious into what you're doing, how you're doing it f constantly trying to find the best ways to improve your organization, to improve your product, to improve your service, you will eventually be left behind.
Speaker B:You could be doing great right now.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker B:Look at Blockbuster.
Speaker B:It was, it was behemoth of a company and didn't look around.
Speaker B:You know, they laughed at Netflix when Netflix offered to sell Netflix to them for $50 million.
Speaker B:And you know what?
Speaker B:I.
Speaker B:One thing I often think about using that analogy of Blockbuster.
Speaker B:Netflix is what a Blockbuster had bought Netflix.
Speaker B:Would we have the Netflix we have today?
Speaker B:Did they have the mindset and the curiosity to make Netflix what it is today?
Speaker B:My guess would be no.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker B:They would have adapted some digital aspects and took it away from store and it would have survived.
Speaker B:But would it be, you know, producing some of the most viewed movies of all time right now?
Speaker B:You know, the K Pop Demon Hunters.
Speaker B:My wife and I actually watched it without my son.
Speaker B:Loved it.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:It's breaking records left and right.
Speaker B:Like, would Blockbuster have done that?
Speaker B:You know, I don't know.
Speaker B:It's an interesting topic to think about.
Speaker A:They might have been the new Kodak.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Digital camera and then not used it.
Speaker B:Right, Right.
Speaker A:Invested in paper.
Speaker A:You know, I'm curious as I think about organizations who are trying to be curious and look at the next step, would you kind of say that curiosity can also be a danger for organizations?
Speaker A:I kind of think of my examples in my head right now is, was curiosity what led, say, Cracker Barrel to make a really bad organizational decision?
Speaker A:Because like, hey, let's be curious to figure out if we can get a different clientele.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:That'S an interesting.
Speaker B:Like I, I actually just having some discussions about this.
Speaker B:So it's very timely.
Speaker B:Yeah, I mean, you got to be smart, right?
Speaker B:Like you, you, you don't create change for the sake of change.
Speaker B:You know, this is, you know, this is, this is why I often talk to people about, you know, being, being kind to yourself.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker B:Like small, small business decision makers beat themselves all the time about make the wrong decision.
Speaker B:They chose the wrong software for payroll or did something.
Speaker B:And I'm like, these big behemoth companies make mistakes too, right?
Speaker B:Like if they're allowed to make mistakes, like Crackle Barrel had the money, had the time to test this, they could have brought together focus groups to test this.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So I don't think the curiosity was the problem.
Speaker B:I think just someone relied on their own thoughts of what the customers would handle instead of taking the time to actually test this because that's something they could have done.
Speaker B:And maybe they did and they, they tested the wrong group.
Speaker B:I have no idea.
Speaker B:But the blowback from this is, is crazy, right?
Speaker B:That, that it's had this kind of big of a harsh pullback and, and quite frankly, you know, I don't think it should be so surprising to them with just everything, everything tastes political.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker B:Like I, I, obviously we're not here to get into politics.
Speaker B:Everything, but everything become, becomes a social issue.
Speaker B:And you have to be mindful of that for sure.
Speaker A:Yeah, I love that.
Speaker A:But it did make steak and shake popular for a couple of days.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:So as you, as you work with organizations, especially with maybe even your team, how do you help leaders to create, cultivate curiosity in their teams?
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker B:So there, there was a study done by Google.
Speaker B:They, they were trying to determine what traits in a team made it successful.
Speaker B:This is for their own purpose, right?
Speaker B:Like this is not some academic study.
Speaker B:This is, they want to know why team A was outperforming team B.
Speaker B:And you know, thousands of hours of interviews and form intakes and all this stuff.
Speaker B:They talked to a lot of people throughout Google and what they came back was psychological safety.
Speaker B:And that's kind of the core of creating a curious culture.
Speaker B:You know, if you want to create an environment where you allow your team to speak up, speak out, point out where there's problems, bring new ideas, you gotta have psychological safety.
Speaker B:So that's kind of the base of it.
Speaker B:And there's ways that you can really help cultivate that.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker B:One is getting to know your staff.
Speaker B:And I don't mean at a superficial level at the water cooler or at the company happy hour, but truly getting to know them, you know, what makes them excited about coming to work, what's their ambitions in their job.
Speaker B:And start having these one on one conversations with your team.
Speaker B:And when you start asking your team, team, you know, what can we do to make your job better?
Speaker B:You know what, what ideas do you have to improve this organization?
Speaker B:Start having those conversations one on one with your team.
Speaker B:That way when it gets to your team meetings and you're having that rehash after an event or a program launch, whatever it may be, and you're trying to figure out what worked and didn't work, you've set the psychological safety mentality amongst your team that they know it's okay to give a true answer.
Speaker B:You know, we all know what happens in those meetings normally, which is the manager or CEO, whoever is leading that meeting, gets up and says this just happened.
Speaker B:Here are my thoughts.
Speaker B:You just Brought that entire room, your direction.
Speaker B:Like, unless you have a culture already built that allows for people to disagree with the CEO, even if someone's going to softly disagree with them, you've watered down their response if they completely disagree with the CEO.
Speaker B:And so learn to speak last.
Speaker C:Right?
Speaker B:Learn to get to know your staff.
Speaker B:Allow new people, people speak up.
Speaker B:You know, again, kind of a, we all know the eye rolling that happens when we're in a meeting and the manager CEO says to the new person, hey, what are your thoughts?
Speaker B:Or like, you've been here for five minutes.
Speaker B:What do you have to contribute here?
Speaker B:They have a lot to contribute.
Speaker B:They're the ones who aren't bogged down to the traditions, the habits, the culture as it exists in that organization and are able to bring the freshest set of eyes to, to what we're doing, how we're doing, and why we're doing it that way.
Speaker B:So, you know, those are some of my biggest tips of really kind of starting to bring in a curious culture and break down the barriers so that your staff truly know that they are a contributing part of the organization, their opinions are valued and that, you know, in today's organizations, we're no longer working on a factory line and building the same product or same part 40 times a day.
Speaker B:Regardless of what's happening around us, we all have interesting insights into the process and procedures of organizations.
Speaker B:Accounting has a viewpoint of what sales is doing and vice versa.
Speaker B:So, you know, most people say, like, what does the accountant have to do with the sales team?
Speaker B:A lot.
Speaker B:You know, look at Fisker, the car company, you know, you know, famously bankrupt now, but it came out during the bankruptcy that they were shipping cars to people without accepting payment first.
Speaker B:We're not talking about a ream of paper or a pack of pens.
Speaker B:We're talking about 40, 50, $60,000 automobiles.
Speaker B:Automobiles that were being shipped out to people without accepting payment.
Speaker B:There was a breakdown in process of procedures between sales, contracting and accounting.
Speaker B:And they probably didn't have, you know, the culture set to where they were allowed to communicate back and forth in making sure things were done right.
Speaker A:So people going, wow, a free car.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I mean, there was something like they had something like $10 million in the receivables that were uncollected.
Speaker B:It was insane.
Speaker A:Wow, that's.
Speaker A:It just seems like a no brainer there.
Speaker A:But apparently it wasn't.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker A:So I'm curious, you know, we do some of the buzzwords today in organizations and business and entrepreneurship is diversity.
Speaker A:How does diversity play into this creating a curious culture and listening and engaging people in so that more, more voices are being heard.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So I, again, I think it's, it's part of the foundation of it.
Speaker B:You know, again, you know, DI and diversity, equity, inclusions, you know, become politicized in, in today's world.
Speaker B:And, and, but the, the true reasons behind DI is that you're bringing together people of different perspectives, different mindset, different ways of looking at things if you can.
Speaker B:You want to find the best ways to do things and to solve problems.
Speaker B:Bringing together a collection of ideas and input is the best way to do that.
Speaker B:You know, I once had a boss who was very smart, very ambitious, very results oriented, and he was famous for saying, you know, I don't want you to just think, I want you to think like me.
Speaker B:Well, every time I've kind of worked for someone or come around someone who has that kind of mentality, the first thing that happens when things aren't going well, they point the finger at the staff and ask them what's going wrong.
Speaker B:Well, like if everyone's thinking like you, everyone's doing exactly what you want done, like, look in the mirror like, like, like why are we going back to the staff now that it's not working?
Speaker B:Well, when you've, you've made it perfectly clear that you want people to do exactly what you say, how you do it, and think just like you.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So breaking down those walls and realizing that ideas, problem solving and solutions are not defined by roles, by hierarchy, even by departments, and truly tapping into that diverse perspective from a personal sense, from a professional stance, as well as, you know, their position in the organization, the insights they have, tap into all of it.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker B:You know, bring all that in, into the fold and make it all work.
Speaker B:You know, working in the association world, there, there are some segments of the association world and we find this in tech and consulting other businesses too.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker B:But you know, where if you don't have, haven't had a previous job in that particular industry, they'll never hire you.
Speaker B:And then they keep wondering why the organizations do the same things.
Speaker B:You're, you're, you're working from the same pool of people.
Speaker B:Like, I'm someone who, I believe that me having worked in, in, in, in nonprofits and associations helps me when I work with a tech company.
Speaker B:I think working with a tech company helps me when I work with an association in everything in between.
Speaker B:I bring, I get to, you know, bring in ideas, process and procedures that happen in different industries and apply them differently to a new industry and organization.
Speaker B:And again, it's about just being curious about what's possible and exploring every opportunity.
Speaker A:So how do you balance curiosity, which could become navel gazing at some point, with actual execution?
Speaker A:If you have things to get done, how do you stop going, wow, let's think about this and actually get some stuff done?
Speaker A:If you have a fast paced scheduler that you have to work with.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker B:You know, so I would say that's probably one of the hardest things that I've had to do as, as an entrepreneur is that I, I've, you know, if you know, EOs, I, you know, I've always kind of played that integrator role.
Speaker B:So the visionary role in organizations I've worked for.
Speaker B:But when I stepped on my own, had my own consulting company and you know, doing, writing books and doing TED talks out, all that type of stuff like I, I, I stepped into the visionary role.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker B:And I, and I live in both those worlds.
Speaker B:So with everything I talk about with curiosity, I'm still very much a believer in process of procedures.
Speaker B:I believe they should be documented.
Speaker B:I believe that we should be doing things in the most efficient, effective way.
Speaker B:And if you're constantly changing, constantly moving the targets, that's impossible to do.
Speaker B:So there absolutely has to be a balance.
Speaker B:And I think for me what it is, is, is using your curiosity to figure out the best ways to do things, creating those process procedures so they're nailed down or at least you know, put down with, with removal glue and you know, set them up, make sure they're working, but then have the curious mechanisms to check back in so you don't get stuck doing the same thing over and over again, expecting different results.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:That's the key.
Speaker B:Use your curiosity to get the new ideas, build the process procedure so it's solid and has a foundation to work from and then create those mechanisms to bring curiosity back in to make sure that it's still the right way to be doing it.
Speaker A:I like that because being in D.C. and I'm sure you've run across a lot of policies, lawmakers who have curiosity, who execute.
Speaker A:But then I think the most important thing that's missing is evaluating the impact of the decision.
Speaker A:So how do you encourage leaders to evaluate the decisions they're making so that you don't have a cracker barrel situation or you don't have a blockbuster situation where you go, we need to evaluate whether or not what we're doing is even working.
Speaker B:Yeah, I think this goes back to opening up.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker B:Being vulnerable.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker B:Like what I mean by vulnerability is not believing that you have all the right answers or that you should have all the right answers.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:Like you got to talk to people again, talk to your staff, talk to your customers, talk to your target audience.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:You gotta learn to step down from the CO seat and join everybody else.
Speaker C:Right?
Speaker B:Like you don't have to have all the right answers, you shouldn't have all the right answers.
Speaker B:You gotta learn to tap into other people and truly vet what you're doing and see what's working, not working.
Speaker B:Otherwise you're just guessing.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker B:If you're executing and never taking the time to evaluate or reevaluate what you've done, you're just guessing that you made the right choice and hoping it works.
Speaker B:And that's not a way for long term growth.
Speaker B:You might work for a little bit, right?
Speaker B:You might have your blockbuster era of success, but then you're going to get beat by Netflix.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:So what's one project initiative you're working on right now that really excites your curiosity mind?
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker B:So it actually has to do with curiosity itself.
Speaker B:So I've been working the last several months on launching two Cureus related assessments.
Speaker B:One is the Curious Leader assessment.
Speaker B:So it's, it's, it's breaking down, you know what kind of archetype of leader you are from, you know, your typical kind of traditional to innovator type type roles.
Speaker B:And then curiosity for this one is not an archetype but kind of an umbrella.
Speaker B:Because to be a curious Leader, you got to have some collaboration, you have to have some innovation, you have to have multiple different elements that kind of create that curious leader and that's what this assesses.
Speaker B:So first and foremost what that person's archetype is.
Speaker B:But then do they meet enough of these factors to be deemed a Curious leader?
Speaker B:And the second one is a Curious Culture assessment.
Speaker B:So again it dives into the principles and practices like around psychological safety and things like that, where it's assessing each individual's view of the culture, but then also collectively takes that cohort and, and brings it all together and compares the results and comes back with what whether or not your organization is, is towards that, that curious designation and that one.
Speaker B:Actually I do have curiosity as a designated archetype for a culture.
Speaker B:Yeah, I'm hoping, I'm hoping that I, I think there's a good chance the Curious Leader one could be released next week.
Speaker B:And I believe the Curious Culture one will, will be released by the end of September.
Speaker A:Wow, Exciting stuff.
Speaker A:That's really cool.
Speaker A:Let us know when you do so can show up, put a link in the, in the section when you get it.
Speaker B:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker B:And, and you can keep up to date on my website.
Speaker B:John Bassford.
Speaker B:Jon Bass, Like a fish.
Speaker B:Ford Like a car.
Speaker B:Uh, dot com.
Speaker B:Uh, that's.
Speaker B:We'll be, we'll be putting everything up there and so just keep an eye out for uh, for things mentioning the cur.
Speaker B:The curiosity advantage.
Speaker B:It was kind of the umbrella I'm putting around all these different products and services that we're doing, our curiosity.
Speaker A:So if you can inspire my, my listeners to one mindset change today, what would it be.
Speaker B:To step beyond how you currently see things?
Speaker B:And let me give a quick little example on that.
Speaker B:So I was working with a founder and CEO and I came in to make some changes.
Speaker B:And one thing I discovered was there was an area of the business that we were getting killed by a competitor that just started and was already killing us.
Speaker B:And it was around digital and video content.
Speaker B:And again our demographics were people in their teens, early 20s.
Speaker B:So video, this is in the last 10 years.
Speaker B:So video content was king.
Speaker B:And I brought this idea to the CEO and I said, hey, like, we gotta, we gotta shake things up here.
Speaker B:We gotta, we gotta add some video content and have some speakers, that sort of stuff.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And his response was, you know, that's not what I had envisioned when I started the company 27 years ago.
Speaker B:I'm like, really?
Speaker B:So before Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, cell phones in our pocket, you didn't envision video being a major driver for content, for audience, right?
Speaker B:And so like, you know, he, there's several things there, right?
Speaker B:One, he got stuck in his original vision of what he saw.
Speaker B:I think part of it was I was bringing too much change too quickly.
Speaker B:And this is kind of where he finally dug his heels in.
Speaker B:But you got it.
Speaker B:You got to break free from your thoughts and views of what should be and what you've always envisioned and truly get curious about the possibilities.
Speaker B:That's when you shake things up.
Speaker B:You explore new opportunities, you, you release new products, new services, find new ways to serve your, your clients, your customers.
Speaker B:So that, that's my biggest thing is, right, it's a break free from what, what you've always done and how you see things and truly just, you know, tap into your team and explore new ideas.
Speaker A:So John, I love to ask my guests this question.
Speaker A:What do you want your legacy to be?
Speaker B:So for me, my, my, my purpose.
Speaker B:Let me kind of start with there.
Speaker B:My purpose is you Know, I want to use my skills, my talents, my experience to help people and organizations grow.
Speaker B:That, that's what I want to do.
Speaker B:So my legacy would be fulfilling that to the highest degrees.
Speaker B:You know, I want to work with individuals on a very personal level, but also, you know, reach, you know, hundreds, thousands of people in big keynote stages.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:I want to work with people on individual, in big levels so that I can help bring, you know, my experience, my expertise, my, my, my message to, to other leaders, entrepreneurs, business owners to help them truly reach new heights.
Speaker A:I love it.
Speaker A:So this year on season six of the podcast, we have a surprise question.
Speaker A:Pick a number between one and four for your surprise question.
Speaker B:Let's go three.
Speaker A:All right, this three's been really popular today.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:Who would you most like to sit next to on a 10 hour flight and why?
Speaker B:I'm going to go with Gary Vaynerchuk.
Speaker B:I'm a big fan of his.
Speaker B:I follow a lot of the millionaire billionaire entrepreneurs and he just has a very, very different way of approaching it.
Speaker B:I believe he does it from a sense of humility.
Speaker B:I believe that, you know, he has the message of be happy.
Speaker C:Right?
Speaker B:Like, be happy.
Speaker B:Like, not everyone has to be a billionaire and you be.
Speaker B:Not wanting to be a billionaire does not make you a loser.
Speaker B:You know, I've read in a book from a famous entrepreneur who literally, and then the first three or four pages wrote, if you, if I remember this correctly, if you created a $400,400 million business and exited, it didn't go on to create your next billion dollar business, you're a failure.
Speaker B:I'm like, if I have a $400 million exit, I am moving to the Bahamas.
Speaker B:Like, like, like that is like, I will still work, I will do things, I will invest, I will, I will make my money grow.
Speaker B:But like, you know, like, so to me, Gary Vaynerchuk just has a really different kind of way of approaching what happiness is, what hard work is, how leaders should act.
Speaker B:And, and he talks a lot about the, you know, respecting your employees and caring about them.
Speaker B:And there's just a lot that I love to pick a sprain about.
Speaker A:That's great.
Speaker A:So where can.
Speaker A:Let's just connect with you and follow what you're doing and learn more about you.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So I have two websites of the best ways to, to do that.
Speaker B:You get all my socials there.
Speaker B:So my consulting website is think-lateral.com.
Speaker B:they get, as I mentioned before, my personal brand site, which is probably the best one to kind of see the overall what I'm doing and see my TEDx and my personal brand social.
Speaker B:But again, the website's John Basford Jon B-A-S-S-F O-R D.com and keep an eye out for those updates on the assessments.
Speaker A:Well John, thanks so much for sharing this and and being curious and encouraging us also to be curious, but curious with content and also curious with a view.
Speaker A:For if my curiosity just curiosity or am I actually trying to innovate in my curiosity?
Speaker B:Yeah, 100%.
Speaker B:Well, thank you very much for having me.
Speaker B:I thoroughly enjoy the conversation and look forward to being back sometime.
Speaker A:Thank you John.
