Creating Purpose and Alignment with Gen Z Employees

Keith Haney (: 00:01

Well, Anna, how you doing? Welcome to the podcast this morning.

Anna Hislop (: 00:04

Thank you, Keith. I'm doing really well.

Keith Haney (: 00:06

Good to have you on.

Anna Hislop (: 00:08

Nice to be here. How are you doing today?

Keith Haney (: 00:10

I'm doing great. I'm looking forward to talk to you about this topic. I have Gen Zs in my house, so if you could help me understand them, that would be phenomenal. I love to ask my guests this question. What's the best piece of advice you've ever received?

Anna Hislop (: 00:19

Yes, I will do my very best.

Anna Hislop (: 00:29

My best piece of advice is to actually slow down, to be able to speed up sometimes, to allow myself some reflection time, to allow myself some time in between the thought and the action. So that's one good piece of advice that I've received and I try to live by it.

Keith Haney (: 00:55

So how does that play out in your life? I love that advice, but how is that in a real practical way? How do you implement that?

Anna Hislop (: 01:02

Well I work as a coach and a leadership facilitator and a lot of the work that I'm doing is to support leaders to do a you know a better job in their own view and when we talk about challenges and when we talk about different scenarios and when I support them to to come up with their own answers

there's a lot of reflection that I need to do myself. So as an example, after every session, I sit down with my journal and take some notes based on how that conversation went and what I could have done differently, et cetera. But it's also about, you know, in day to day, when we are quick to respond to situations and events and we're responding based on our default, aren't we? And to allow myself that little bit of space.

to identify the thinking that I'm doing, to be able to control my response to the situation, to be more less reactive and more reflective.

Keith Haney (: 02:11

I love that. I want to get into your book because I'm very curious about your book. You only have to ask. So what got you into writing a book about Gen Z in the workplace?

Anna Hislop (: 02:17

Hmm.

Anna Hislop (: 02:24

Well, that is a great question. It's got two answers really to it. And the first answer is that I have spent most of my professional life working with Gen Z generation and both as a teacher, as a deputy head of a school, and also as a leadership coach supporting emerging leaders and young early careers employees in their work.

place. But it's also because I happened to meet up with a gentleman called Peter Lightfoot. And he is a coach and an author. And he had a great idea and a great framework. And we decided to partner up and collaborate and write this book together. So it's a it's a shared or kind of co authored book. And yeah, so my background in Gen Z was one one big reason and

his experience in coaching and leadership development was another.

Keith Haney (: 03:28

We always like to pigeonhole generations and groups into segments. What is probably the most common misconception about the Gen Z population?

Anna Hislop (: 03:33

Mmm.

Anna Hislop (: 03:40

Well, one quite common misconception is that they're difficult to manage, they're high maintenance, they are hard work and that often sets the tone, I think, in how we deal with this generation. The media loves that narrative and they talk about entitlement, they talk about...

you know, readily offended young people who don't want to work hard. And that is a massive misconception. And I think it's very damaging to this generation and to the world of work in general.

Keith Haney (: 04:20

I think every generation brings with them a certain benefit and bonus attribute to the world. If you wanted to kind of say, what does this generation bring to the world that maybe the world needs desperately at this time? What would you say that would be in a general way?

Anna Hislop (: 04:26

Mmm. Mmm.

Anna Hislop (: 04:39

I love how accepting they are of diversity, how they strive for inclusion, how they really take on the issues of social injustice and they want to create some important changes in the workplace based on those values, based on those beliefs. So I think that that is a beautiful thing that this generation is bringing and something that

has perhaps been overlooked in the past that we haven't focused enough on.

Keith Haney (: 05:13

So you wrote a book, you only have to ask, can you kind tell us the significance of that title of your book?

Anna Hislop (: 05:20

So this title is it's all about communication and it's all about the powerful idea that asking Gen Z employees about their needs and about their expectations, their challenges can lead to insights as to how we can work better together. And sometimes leaders believe that they have to have all of the answers themselves and they have to have, you know, the right

strategy to work with everybody. But very often we forget that we don't have all of the answers and we can possibly not have all of the answers. So just asking for guidance will be so helpful. And the subtitle of this book is that, you know, how to realize the full potential of Gen Z at work. And realize has a double meaning here as well. First of all, it's for leaders to actually realize

the strength and the power that Gen Z can bring to the workplace and then it's also to make it happen, to actually realise it for them, together with them, in collaboration with them.

Keith Haney (: 06:34

I love unlocking people's full potential. You have some strategies to do that. What are some things that employers can do to really tap into what I would say every group, every person you bring on board has some unique strengths and abilities, but it's really kind of on the leader to tap into that. So what are some ideas you have to help bosses tap into the Gen Z population and their strengths?

Anna Hislop (: 06:49

Mm.

Anna Hislop (: 06:59

Yeah, that's a great question. So this book offers a framework with questions that all leaders can ask and to use to understand what their gen Z employees need and want to be able to thrive in the workplace. And it emphasizes the importance as well of, you know, regular feedback. This is a generation that really thrives when being given feedback and they want to have professional

and personal growth as a part of their role. So this framework is all about, know, questions are asked to enable that information to be extracted. So things like, do I know what's expected of me? That's one of the questions that many Gen Z struggle with. They don't fully know what's really expected of them in the role that they have.

And the second question is around why that is expected. Gen Z loves understanding the bigger picture to see where their strengths fit in and why they've been chosen to do this piece of work and what they can bring to the table. So why is it expected of them? They also want to know whether they agree with that purpose of the business, you know, and that alignment is very important to Gen Z.

to really understand why I'm doing what I'm doing and whether that is what I want to be doing. And if that alignment is missing, they won't bring their passion, they won't bring their energy and they won't bring their skills and professionalism either to the task. So those are just three examples of questions in this framework that will help all leaders get the full potential or the best out of this generation.

Keith Haney (: 08:57

I think I remember reading that for millennials, it's family first. I'm curious for Gen Z when it comes to career and family, is it different in terms, I know they're probably a little younger than the millennials are when comes to family, but what role does family play in their deciding is this worth it in terms of purpose, vision, overall impact on my life? Is it family first? Is it purpose first? of, and that was kind of a general question.

Anna Hislop (: 09:07

Mm.

Mm.

Anna Hislop (: 09:17

Mm, mm.

Mmm.

Anna Hislop (: 09:26

Yeah, I think purpose plays a very important role and Gen C's generally, they're not yet at the age of having their own families or starting their own families, not the majority of them anyway. But it's an interesting question and Gen C's, they feel a big responsibility for supporting their family members as well as themselves. But they've also grown up in a time which is very focused on individualism.

So, so is that kind of conflict of, do I focus on myself or or or can I also focus on my family and that's why flexible work times, for example, is so important to Gen Z because that enables them to do both. They can both do some work that they love doing, but they can also support family members. And this this kind of conflict is one big reason.

one big reason why Gen Z sometimes experience high levels of stress, to be able to accommodate everyone here but equally accommodate their own needs and their own purpose.

Keith Haney (: 10:34

curious as we just came out of this pandemic that we've done a lot of remote work, remote collaboration. How important is community to Gen Z in terms of the workplace? Will they thrive better in working abroad, working remotely, or will they thrive better typically working together in a setting, in an office building?

Anna Hislop (: 10:37

Mm.

Anna Hislop (: 10:41

Mmm. Mmm.

Anna Hislop (: 10:49

Mmm.

Anna Hislop (: 10:59

Yeah, it's the combination that makes it for Gen Z. They want to be flexible and they want to have a choice of where they do their work. And one big reason for that is because they want to feel trusted. And if an employer says, you need to be at work for four to five days a week, they will instantly think, okay, so they want to control me, they don't trust me to do the work.

So for them, being able to work remotely is a sign of high trust. And that is one of the top three leadership traits that they are looking for in their managers, that high level of trust. So that's one thing. The other thing that comes to mind is, course, Gen Z, they've experienced the pandemic, often when they were going through university or just starting their work, they were forced to work at home.

Creating a sense of belonging is very important to Gen Z and they really value these face -to -face opportunities, but they need to be done with a purpose. Not just sitting in the office, sitting in the office sake, know, with three people being remote and two people being around the table. They don't understand the purpose of that. So if you want to make some efforts to bring people together, it has to...

Yeah, to have a clear purpose and to be, you know, beneficial for that piece around belonging to create that sense of belonging.

Keith Haney (: 12:40

I love this talk of purpose. I'm curious, as a leader, I've made the mistake in the past of me deciding what the purpose is and then trying to convince everybody else the purpose is worthy. I wonder how important is it for Gen Z to be participants in defining what the purpose is versus you telling them what the purpose is?

Anna Hislop (: 12:42

Mm.

Anna Hislop (: 12:49

Mm.

Anna Hislop (: 12:59

Hmm. Hmm. Very important. They love to get involved. They want to have a seat at the table and they are used to it. this is an example from my years at school, you know, students at this time, they were used to having a say about the curriculum. They were used to having a say about how the lessons were planned, what the examination forms.

should be, whether it would be oral or written or a classroom exam or sitting at home writing an essay, they had opinions and their opinions were valued and they were listened to. If a family is buying a new sofa, their Gen Z's teenagers were very much involved in that decision making process, deciding on a budget, understanding what

what pros and cons they were with going for an expensive one or a cheaper one and the implications of that. So, Gen Z, you know, that population or that group have been very much involved in decision making from an early start in their life. As we moved away from that idea that children should be seen but not heard,

Gen Zs are very much used to being seen and heard and suddenly they come into an office environment where their leader has decided on a purpose for their team and they haven't had a say in it and they might not agree with it. And if that is the case, again, they will not bring their passion, they will not bring their energy and their expertise.

Keith Haney (: 14:39

So I love sports and I love when people talk about, especially teams that are struggling, that the coach or the leader has lost a team. As a leader of a company, how do you know when you've lost your Gen Z employees?

Anna Hislop (: 14:57

Well, that's an interesting question and it might not be so easy to know because this generation, don't really like confrontation and they don't really like, you know, they want to be heard and they want to be listened to, but they don't always take the initiative to actually do the talking. And that is quite tricky. So

That is again why we come back to you only have to ask, you as a leader you might need to do the talking or to do the asking to check in with your employee, how they're feeling, how confident they're feeling about doing the work they're meant to be doing, how excited they feel about doing the work that they're doing.

And if you you pick up on that kind of feeling that no, they're quite flat, they're not super excited about it, then that is a good clue that you are about to lose them. Or if they're starting to procrastinate, if they come up with excuses, if they if they, you know, if they don't deliver on time, etc, you might start to lose them then as well. And that could be for

different reasons they might find the task too hard, they might not have the skills to do the task or they might feel like they're low in confidence to actually deliver this. So that could be a reason to bring some support for this employee to ask them what they need to be able to do their job.

Keith Haney (: 16:40

It sounds like this could be a wonderful opportunity for leaders and businesses, but I can also see older people going, do I have to coddle my employees? So what are some of the challenges you're seeing in the workplace for trying to integrate Gen Z into Teams?

Anna Hislop (: 16:49

Mmm, yeah.

Anna Hislop (: 16:59

Yeah, one of the biggest challenges is this clash between what Gen Z expects and wants and needs and the traditional management style. They are looking for something different and yes, the traditional management style might not have the time to give to their Gen Z employees.

But on the other hand, from my opinion, they don't have too much of a choice because Gen Zs are leaving. If they don't feel like they are supported, if they don't feel like they have a manager who cares or trusts them and gives them opportunities to learn and grow, then they will be leaving that workplace in a very short space of time. And this is the change from Gen Z compared to other generations. I think everyone wants to know that they are cared for.

or that they have the support that they need to thrive and perform, or that they are trusted, etc. and have learning and growth opportunities. But earlier generations, they stuck with it, they stayed. But this generation, they leave because they feel like, you know, life is too short. Why should I stay if I'm not getting what I need? So yes, there's a big mindset shift that needs to happen for the leader.

to actually understand that to get the most out of this employee, I will have to adapt my style as well.

Keith Haney (: 18:35

I love that I work a lot in the church setting and I know the struggles that churches are having is again, the same thing as Gen Z's don't stay, especially if we don't find a way to integrate them into the life of the congregation and same thing with business. I'm curious, you talk about feedback and communication. What are some effective ways that you've discovered from your research and your book to effectively do this? Because we don't do feedback well. I remember my first...

Anna Hislop (: 18:52

Mm. Mm.

Anna Hislop (: 19:01

Mm.

Keith Haney (: 19:04

real job and the feedback I got was the boss brought me in once a year and he gave me three things he liked and two things I need to change. And really the three things he liked was just kind of filler. It was those two things he didn't like that I need to work on. So how do you communicate effectively with Gen Z?

Anna Hislop (: 19:16

Mm -hmm. Yeah. Yeah.

Anna Hislop (: 19:25

Yeah, it's interesting that and just to put it in a bit of a context why they want feedback is not to boost their ego necessarily. It's because they're to it from their days in education that their teachers were really supportive during their academic career and they had

these learning management tools, apps, online platforms that constantly gave them feedback and it was direct and it was instant. So that is why they are so used to getting this feedback. This context of social media, they get feedback all of the time, whether it's through a like or a comment or a repost. So again, this is something that they are very used to and they are...

very surprised to see how rare it is in the work context to get this kind of feedback. So that's just bit of context as to why they look for it. And when it comes to effective and efficient feedback to give, I think it's very important to check in with yourself about the intention that you have with the feedback. Why do you want to give this piece of feedback? it for the better of the person?

to help them grow to help the relationship to grow deeper. Is it for the better of the business? You know, if that is the intention behind the feedback, then it's always good to give that feedback, but it's important to share it. And so that they understand why it's not it's not about making them feel bad. It's not about making you feel better. It's about, you know, for the

the better of the business, for example. And then it's around inviting them to share their own learning because most feedback we already know ourselves, don't we? So those two things that your manager told you, you were probably already aware of them. Am I right? Yeah. So inviting them to have a reflection around what are they learning about themselves?

Keith Haney (: 21:29

Exactly, yeah.

Anna Hislop (: 21:37

regarding this piece of feedback, what can they do? What action can they take to grow in this specific area? And where have they seen this before? And what changes did they make for the better? So inviting that reflection and having a conversation rather than you sharing your opinion about them. So I think that's one way of making it slightly more valuable for

for this population.

Keith Haney (: 22:09

This is a generation that grew up with technology in their hands the day they could read a book. So how does technology impact this generation, especially in the workplace?

Anna Hislop (: 22:13

Mm -hmm.

Anna Hislop (: 22:22

massively and in different ways. So one big impact is obviously the mental health situation. We have an incredible number of young adults and teenagers who are depressed today, know, they're suffering with their mental health and the, you know, the technology, the constant connectivity, the comparative, you know, the

The way that we compare ourselves to others in that sphere is a big reason for why we feel the way we feel. So that is one big impact. And I think it's important to have those conversations as well with our employees. How are you feeling about technology and how is it helping you versus how is it unhelpful?

you and what changes can we make there. The other impact that technology has is obviously the way that we work and how we work. We talked about remote working earlier, we have different platforms to communicate through. Boomers for example, they're more used to face -to -face communication or picking up the phone. A Gen Z or a millennial they're used to messaging and

you know, email is a bit of a stretch for a Gen Z. They rather just write a quick message on Slack or on WhatsApp to have the, you know, the message shared. And yeah, picking up the phone is something that Gen Z's generally don't like doing. They associate it with bad news. They don't like it.

Keith Haney (: 24:14

I discovered that I have some kids who are Gen Z and rarely do we talk on the phone. Everything is text messages. And it's funny because I remember working with an organization where you had a boomer leader and you had a Gen Z population and they agreed to communicate on this platform where they could basically text message each other. While this older leader was used to, you know, people just pick up the phone and calling.

Anna Hislop (: 24:21

Mm.

Anna Hislop (: 24:30

Mm.

Anna Hislop (: 24:37

Mm.

Keith Haney (: 24:43

and he would not join the app. And so there was all kinds of things going on communication wise and they would message him and he would never respond back. And they were very frustrated. It's like, why do you keep ignoring us? And he's like, what do mean I'm ignoring you? Just call me. He's like, no, we have this app that we're sending messages on and we're telling you stuff, but you're not paying attention. He's like, I don't like apps. And so it was, can see that when you're talking about this generational disconnect of how one group processes things versus another group.

Anna Hislop (: 25:02

Yeah. Yeah.

Keith Haney (: 25:12

and how it can create all kinds of tensions in the workplace.

Anna Hislop (: 25:15

Absolutely, absolutely. And this is where we again, need to start talking to each other, we need to start communicating more and understand our preferences of, for example, communication. But it's not just communication, it's also how we do our work. Whether we are more visual within the younger population versus more analogue and, you know, heavy presentations in the older generation. So it's about what we're to.

and it's about the advancement of technology running parallel to that. I think Gen Z population can definitely benefit from growing a bit of understanding and appreciation of the older generation as well as the older generation understanding and appreciating what the younger one brings.

Keith Haney (: 26:06

Whenever I write a book, always come away with some surprising revelations and learnings. What was that for you in writing this book and researching for the book?

Anna Hislop (: 26:12

Mm.

Anna Hislop (: 26:18

Yeah, I think the impact of mental health on this population was one big kind of wow, it's really impacting them in many different ways. Their views on the economic instability, how that is shaping their expectations of the workplace as well, what they need.

The emphasis on wellbeing and the changes that this generation will create in the workplace as a result of that focus, I think it will be really interesting to see as well. And also that desire for learning and development. This generation, they're expected to work until about 80 and they're expected to have about 18 different employers and about five different careers.

So this need to have constant development and learning and upskilling is really important to them. It's not what it used to be like for us when we took our degree, we trained for our profession and we worked in that profession and possibly we changed employer for sure, but not career necessarily. And this generation has a very different approach to that. They don't expect.

have a paid retirement they need to hustle and make it work themselves because of the aging population.

Keith Haney (: 27:54

Having said that, I'm curious, what can businesses do realizing that mental health is really going to impact a large majority of their workforce? Is there something you would recommend that employers do in that area to help their Gen Z employees?

Anna Hislop (: 28:05

Mm.

Anna Hislop (: 28:12

Yeah, I talk one of the questions in our book is this can I do it and how confident do I feel doing it? so in that kind of space, we talk a lot about self -efficacy and supporting their employer, or sorry, employee to to build that feeling of yes, I can achieve this, I can do this with a bit of help maybe, but I have the tools needed. And sometimes it's about changing the the process.

of how we do the work and supporting your employees and direct reports in that space. Sometimes it's about offering training if there's some skill gaps that needs to be filled. Sometimes there's about supporting them to build that confidence and to check in with.

What thoughts are they having? What beliefs do they hold about themselves that's stopping them from progressing here and helping them to reframe that and build that confidence? The other areas around the team, highlighting the power of the team rather than the individual player. And you mentioned this earlier about the sports teams of, it's not just one player that

wins or loses the game, it's the whole team. applying teamwork into solving problems at work can be really supportive for this younger generation to feel that they're not alone. It doesn't fall or break because of them. They're in a bigger context than that.

Keith Haney (: 29:55

I love that. That's really good. What is your hope for the future of the workforce for Gen Z leading the way?

Anna Hislop (: 30:04

I think we can create a better world if we start to cultivate generational intelligence in the workplace, where we really understand and appreciate what all generations bring to the workplace and we can start to communicate better. But in terms of Gen Z and how they will create some important changes, it's super exciting to see what will happen in the...

in the inclusion and diversity area. It's super interesting to see what will happen around the wellness and mental fitness and how we can support all people in the workplace to have a better, more sustainable work life and life.

I mean, burnout is expected to be the next pandemic, isn't it? So we need to make these changes. And finally, someone is really raising their voice on this and saying, it's not sustainable. I need to have my natural break between my work and my private life. And whether that means I'm booking a yoga class at five o 'clock just to get out of the office or close my computer, then that's all good.

and it's positive for everybody and they are willing to lead the way on that.

Keith Haney (: 31:27

curious, this is a great conversation, but what do you hope your legacy is to your work that you're doing now?

Anna Hislop (: 31:35

I really hope that I will play a part in creating this understanding and appreciation for the different generations. That's what I'm hoping. And to support managers to work better with Gen Z, to really support them to fulfill their potential and for them to really thrive in the workplace. So that is what I'm hoping to achieve.

Because at the moment we're running a risk of this whole generation feeling unheard, unsupported and very unengaged or lack of motivation at work. And to be honest, we don't have the time or we don't have the money to deal with that as societies, as a global society. So it's really important that we take this seriously and that we are willing to

to change our ways to accommodate this generation.

Keith Haney (: 32:38

Where can listeners find your book? You only have to ask and connect with you on social media.

Anna Hislop (: 32:44

Yes, so they can find it on any kind of online retailer or in big bookshops, both in the States and in Europe, as well as connecting with me on LinkedIn, for example, look for Anna Hislop, generational expert. yeah, that's that's the easiest way to get in contact with me.

Keith Haney (: 33:08

As you wrap up this amazing conversation, what key takeaways do you want to leave with the audience?

Anna Hislop (: 33:16

The key takeaways from this conversation, I think it's about curiosity and you mentioned that word many times in this conversation, Keith, and I love that. It's about being curious about the other generations. It's about being curious about what they expect, what they need, how they feel and what they hope to achieve with their own work. So being curious, being open -minded,

be willing to take one step to close the gap. I'm not saying that we need to take all of the steps to close this gap because our younger population will also need to take some steps to recognize this. But at least be willing to take one or two steps to closing this gap between the generations in the workplace and to, yeah, to pause yourself.

to create a bit of space to slow down in your thinking before you judge, before you make assumptions, before you make decisions which might not be supportive of this generation.

Keith Haney (: 34:27

I love that. And thank you for what you do, because I think giving insights into this generation that's up and coming, I'm hopeful for them because I do think that they do bring so much to the table and they bring a sense of inclusion and belonging that I think we've really kind of distanced ourselves from in recent years. So I celebrate that. But I also think that we need to be open up to listening to how we can give them the kind of feedback that they

are seeking. And it's not bad for us to look for ways to give feedback to people. I think more people could use feedback. So it's not a bad thing. That's a good thing for us to practice.

Anna Hislop (: 35:03

Absolutely.

Yeah, 100%. And it speaks to the first question of this framework as well. You know, do I know what is expected of me? We have a responsibility as leaders to really share what's expected in the workplace. When it comes to how we behave, when it comes to the attitude that we bring, when it comes to, to when and how, you know, we do work best in this particular workplace.

So as leaders, have that responsibility to start that conversation and to ask for their input and co -create the rules of engagement, if you like.

Keith Haney (: 35:50

Yeah, thanks so much, Anna. Blessings on what you do and may your book be a huge success and maybe we'll pick it up and read it and find ways to connect with this important critical generation for us.

Anna Hislop (: 35:59

Thank you. Thanks for having me.

Keith Haney (: 36:01

Thanks for being here.

Anna Hislop (: 36:07