Mastering Communication: Insights from Michelle Gladieux
The principal focus of this podcast episode is the imperative of courageous communication, as articulated by our esteemed guest, Michelle Gladieux, a recognized expert in the domain of interpersonal communication. Gladieux, acclaimed for her award-winning book "Communicate with Courage," elucidates the significance of effective dialogue in fostering organizational success and personal growth. Throughout our discussion, she expounds upon her extensive experience in mentoring individuals and leading seminars that enhance communicative efficacy across various sectors. We delve into the nuances of communication styles, exploring both the challenges and opportunities that arise when individuals engage in honest discourse. As we navigate these themes, we invite our audience to reflect upon their own communicative practices, encouraging them to embrace vulnerability and seek constructive feedback as a means of enhancing their interactions in both personal and professional realms.
Michelle Gladieux, a distinguished figure in the realm of communication and leadership, graces this podcast episode with her insights and experiences. As the president of GladNow Consulting and the author of the award-winning book, 'Communicate with Courage', she brings a wealth of knowledge spanning over 18 years in collegiate teaching and professional development. Gladieux has been instrumental in mentoring individuals across various organizations, addressing the pervasive issue of ineffective communication that often plagues workplaces. Her emphasis on the importance of courage in communication serves as a cornerstone of the discussion, suggesting that many organizational challenges stem from a reluctance to engage in open dialogue. Throughout the episode, we delve into the nuances of assertiveness, the significance of tone in communication, and the need to cultivate an environment where individuals feel empowered to express their thoughts candidly. Michelle Gladieux's practical advice encourages listeners to reflect on their communication styles and consider how they can foster a more collaborative atmosphere.
Takeaways:
- Effective communication is paramount in any organization; it is the key to overcoming challenges and achieving success.
- The concept of courage is integral to communication, enabling individuals to express their thoughts and feelings honestly.
- Understanding the emotional context of communication is essential; tone often conveys more than the words themselves.
- Trusted individuals' feedback can significantly enhance communication skills and foster personal growth.
- Cultural differences in communication styles can lead to misunderstandings; awareness of these differences is crucial.
- Self-awareness and understanding one's unique mission are vital for courageous communication.
Transcript
My guest today is Michelle Gladnow.
Speaker A:She's been called a human potential whisperer.
Speaker A:She is the author of the award winning book Communicate with Courage and she's president of GladNow Consulting, a team known for top notch seminars and communication leadership topics around the U.S.
Speaker A:she has 18 years of collegiate teaching experience at three universities in her home state of Indiana, accepting a first faculty position teaching organizational leadership at age 23.
Speaker A:She's worked at human resources and training training director in a cold storage Robotics, construction industries and enjoys visiting conferences as keynote speaker.
Speaker A:She has mentored thousands of people and her positive effect on those she advises evident even as just one interaction.
Speaker A:We welcome her to the podcast.
Speaker A:Hi Michelle.
Speaker A:Welcome to the podcast.
Speaker A:How you doing today?
Speaker B:Doing great.
Speaker B:So pleased to be here to talk communication with a communicator like yourself.
Speaker A:I love your last name.
Speaker A:Reminds me of my home state of Louisiana.
Speaker A:Everything we, everything we have ends on that same I E U X so the ghost saints and all that.
Speaker A:So it's good to have you on.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:Laissez le bon temps, right?
Speaker A:That's right.
Speaker A:Love my little French state of Louisiana, but it's fun to have you on.
Speaker B:I'm really happy to be here.
Speaker B:I was thrilled to see that you had my book in hand, so thanks for looking into that.
Speaker A:I always love looking at ways how people communicate because I know in my profession the one thing that causes the most issues in an organization is lack of communication.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Well, some people are hard to communicate with and I know all of us find it very challenging to communicate certain things in certain circumstances.
Speaker B:And that's sort of why I brought the theme of courage into the book.
Speaker B:Because I find myself sometimes holding back when I really am ready and being truthful and there's something I need to say or that I could offer that might help someone else.
Speaker B:And I'm hoping that our listeners will think about that as we discuss communication and maybe choose a goal for themselves that will help them be more brave and effective in the year ahead.
Speaker A:Yeah, because I've worked in organizations where because lack of courage and communication we end up the organization suffers, the employees suffer, everyone suffers because we don't have the courage to say what needs to be said.
Speaker A:So it'll be fun conversation.
Speaker A:Okay, but before we get into too deep into that, we gotta go to my favorite go to question.
Speaker A:What's the best piece of advice you've ever received?
Speaker B:I've received a lot of great advice, but I have to say that this brought to mind my mom and dad.
Speaker B:I love them very much.
Speaker B:They're now deceased.
Speaker B:But they had a lot of pithy little things they would say to us kids.
Speaker B:And my mom really liked to quote Shakespeare, who might have been quoting someone else based on recent research I've seen.
Speaker B:But she would always remind me to thine own self be true.
Speaker B:And she counseled me through a lot of heartache.
Speaker B:When I was a kid, I felt different.
Speaker B:You know, I think I was perceived differently.
Speaker B:I certainly wasn't a super popular kid.
Speaker B:And whenever I was feeling on the outside, she'd remind myself that.
Speaker B:She would remind me that we can have a, a rich inner life that can sustain us.
Speaker B:So I like to thine own self be true.
Speaker B:And my dad would often say, keep your nose clean.
Speaker B:And I think what he meant was, stay out of trouble, I love you.
Speaker B:Because he knew I would be a risk taker and I would be probably engaged in some risky communication, maybe telling somebody, maybe telling a teacher what I really thought.
Speaker B:But they both preached the value of education, diplomacy and assertiveness.
Speaker B:So I got good advice from those two.
Speaker A:I love that.
Speaker A:And assertiveness can be good.
Speaker B:It's good to scoop in some diplomacy with it so that we don't leave people, you know, shocked at what we've said or more importantly, how we've said it.
Speaker B:And there are so many studies that support humans care, as you well know, more about tone than word choice.
Speaker B:You can say a lot with your tone.
Speaker B:I admit sometimes when I'm not pleased.
Speaker B:If I ran you back a transcript of the words I chose, I could say all I said was, but then again, when I listen into the tone, I know that maybe I'm not being as forthright as I could be.
Speaker B:There might be some passive aggressiveness in there.
Speaker A:Yeah, I learned that early on in life.
Speaker A:It was really funny when I remember changing out of the parish into and more of an executive role.
Speaker A:I would go have difficult conversations with congregations and I come back and say, well, how did it go?
Speaker A:And I would read every recant to them, know, recall the conversation.
Speaker A:And like, you said that and you're still here.
Speaker A:I'm like, well, yeah, it didn't come across the.
Speaker A:I mean, the transcript doesn't tell you how the tone went, but they took it really well.
Speaker A:And they were like, I don't know how you get away with that.
Speaker A:So you're right.
Speaker A:Tone does matter.
Speaker B:Who do you think taught you to do that?
Speaker B:So well, Reverend Doctor.
Speaker B:Reverend Doctor.
Speaker A:Well, thank you.
Speaker A:I think my, I think my mom was a truth teller.
Speaker A:I think what I learned from my mom's way of truth telling was she would say in a way that sometimes annoyed people and they turned tuned it out.
Speaker A:So I learned to say the same thing, but in a way either with a smile or something where it was received without the negative pushback that she might have gotten.
Speaker A:So I learned to say it without getting the pushback she got.
Speaker B:Excellent.
Speaker B:I'm very blessed to have a team of eight that works with me.
Speaker B:We're based in Fort Wayne, Indiana and we serve clients all around the United States.
Speaker B:And something that some of our executive coaching clients are trying on for size is if they have something challenging to say or to ask a difficult subject to bring up, we counsel them to use some preamble.
Speaker B:You know, something like, now, Keith, I know you're doing your best and you mean well, and I have some feedback to share today that I think will help this team continue to grow.
Speaker B:So we're learning.
Speaker B:I'm learning.
Speaker B:And as I'm learning it, I'm trying to teach our clients sometimes stating your intention or using a preamble is the best thing you can do so that the ego of the recipient of your behavior isn't stunned, shocked, or the person doesn't get defensive or on the offensive right away.
Speaker B:We really have to.
Speaker B:Emotions are such a big part of communication.
Speaker B:It doesn't make any sense to try to pretend that they aren't right.
Speaker B:So I like to speak to others emotions, try to honor them.
Speaker B:When I'm in, when I'm being my best self as a communicator, I always take into consideration how might the other be feeling, which is also a good way to human.
Speaker B:If we want to make human a verb, you know, that is taking care of others.
Speaker B:And in the long run there's that virtuous circle and it ends up taking care of you and your career.
Speaker A:I've also had to learn because I work a lot cross culturally with other people from other countries, that communication is different depending upon what culture you're coming from.
Speaker A:So I remember we had, I was working with an Asian individual before and I learned that sometimes in Asian culture they will say yes to avoid conflict, having no intention of actually following through on whatever you just asked of.
Speaker A:So it was like, oh, this is important to know because you go, well, why didn't you show up?
Speaker A:Why didn't this happen?
Speaker B:It's like we had a deal, we were going to meet, we were going to do this collaboration.
Speaker B:How do you then find out whether yes means yes yes or yes means no?
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:I talk more with them to make sure that we're okay with this.
Speaker A:And this is not just me pushing something on people, especially with certain groups.
Speaker A:I also learned that people who are French, when you're doing feedback with them, they're used to coming from a culture where they don't get very many, very many compliments, so they're used to negative.
Speaker A:So in our culture when we tend to do feedback, and we do, let me tell you three things.
Speaker A:You're doing well and the one thing that you're not doing well.
Speaker A:Well, if you come from a French culture, you go, wow, I got three compliments.
Speaker A:And really in America, those three things were just kind of throw away just so we could get to the one really important thing.
Speaker B:But if I'm just thinking about my French roots, and perhaps this is why sometimes I miss opportunities, or I've been accused of my feedback being too blunt, mostly with loved ones, especially with family and less so with clients and college students, etc.
Speaker B:And I wonder if that's not in my nature to get to just the heart of the matter, but it, if it shuts the other person down, then we're going nowhere.
Speaker B:So I'm, I think every year that I get older, I refine something else about my communication.
Speaker B:And if I'm lucky enough to live into my 90s, maybe I will be a very, very good communicator.
Speaker B:But it's a lifelong effort, don't you think it is?
Speaker B:Certainly not.
Speaker A:You're always.
Speaker A:Yeah, for sure.
Speaker A:So what inspired you?
Speaker A:Let's get into your book to write Communicate with Courage.
Speaker B:I was having so much fun doing custom training, design and then presenting training in topics all over communication, all over the whole field of communication, presentation skills, conflict management, business writing, performance reviews, stress and change management.
Speaker B:Those the good stuff, I think that really can make a career and a life happier and more successful.
Speaker B:And those companies that hire us to do that, it's 10 people, it's 30 people, it's 300 people.
Speaker B:Or it might be an auditorium of 2,000 people.
Speaker B:But I didn't have a way to get these ideas out to a larger audience.
Speaker B:And I think we need to know about these hidden challenges in communication.
Speaker B:I just wanted to offer what I could offer.
Speaker B:This is my area of subject matter expertise.
Speaker B:And I want the world to know that wherever they start, they can make more of a difference as communicators than they probably realize.
Speaker B:So I wanted a book that would be fun, interesting, there'd be some humor, there might be some tears.
Speaker B:They're all real life stories about myself and other real life people.
Speaker B:And the idea was we keep it short to about 140 pages so that it's something you could read in two hours or you could dip in and try the pro moves, as I call them, and the exercises at the end of each chapter.
Speaker B:And I'll give you a quick definition of pro moves.
Speaker B:Pro moves are small things we can do as communicators that the average bear tends to miss.
Speaker B:They walk on by not thinking, oh, there's an opportunity for praise.
Speaker B:Or I could have asked a clarifying question or forgot to say thank you for that favor.
Speaker B:So little things that can really lift a person up and that can also improve our own reputation.
Speaker B:I call those pro moves and they're sprinkled throughout the book.
Speaker B:I'm really just trying to share and, you know, not hide my light under a bushel basket.
Speaker B:I guess you could say.
Speaker A:I like that.
Speaker A:We all want to be better communicators.
Speaker A:Is there a major thing we could do right away today to be a better communicator?
Speaker A:If there's just we.
Speaker A:We just have one thing we want to improve on, what would be that one thing we should all do to be a better communicator?
Speaker B:Let's be brave, all of us, and ask someone we trust, how did I come across just now?
Speaker B:How did you perceive that?
Speaker B:Is there something I could do differently or better, in your opinion, without giving constructive feedback in return?
Speaker B:Invite others to tell you what they see that you do well as a communicator and then something that you could, in their opinion, sometimes do better.
Speaker B:And you get a in the moment, real life, real talk example of how your behavior impacts others as a communicator.
Speaker B:And if you can keep your mind open and keep the wall down so you can hear what people are saying, you'll learn at least how to communicate better.
Speaker B:And what's going well with that one person that you asked.
Speaker B:And our coaching clients all around the us are taking on challenges like that, but they go ask 12 or 13 people.
Speaker A:Sounds like being vulnerable.
Speaker A:It's kind of sounds like it does.
Speaker B:We call it the feedback challenge.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:But you know, the more we are vulnerable, the more we become strong.
Speaker B:And everybody likes, I think everybody likes to say, keith, well, nobody's perfect.
Speaker B:No one's perfect.
Speaker B:You have to have grace, give others grace, use grace with yourself.
Speaker B:But then secretly, I don't know about you, but secretly I expect my performance to be perfect.
Speaker B:Or sometimes I get into negative self talk about it.
Speaker B:So I say this, that I understand humanity is about imperfection, but then I have A different expectation of myself.
Speaker B:And when I do that, I'm also unkind and unfair sometimes to others because they can't reach my expectations either.
Speaker B:And this is hard to say, but this is some hard work and self awareness.
Speaker B:And this comes from asking others how they perceive right how I'm communicating with them.
Speaker B:Especially in times of conflict where there's great growth to be gained.
Speaker B:If we could just stop running away from conflict and also stop rushing to get in there to win using more collaboration, compromise and the five styles of handling human conflict are listed in the book explained.
Speaker B:And ideally we'd all get good at all five.
Speaker B:So that would be another tip.
Speaker B:I would say that would be a good takeaway for folks who might read the book.
Speaker A:You talk about those five styles of your clients you've worked with.
Speaker A:Is there one style that seems to be more most challenging for people?
Speaker B:There are two.
Speaker B:Avoidance.
Speaker B:And that is when we deny the situation exists or we delay dealing with it.
Speaker B:Kind of magical thinking, hope it's going to resolve itself.
Speaker B:We're all adults.
Speaker B:Well, probably not, but that's probably good for my business because we teach a lot of conflict management skills.
Speaker B:So those teams often call that's great.
Speaker B:But as supervisors, especially if someone is a manager in their workplace or their, their place of volunteerism or their church, then you really do have to be brave and bring up dysfunctional behavior or divisions among team members that does fall to you.
Speaker B:So, so I encourage, I'm finding myself encouraging thousands of clients over the last 25 years to stop with the conflict avoidance and only avoid when you really have to.
Speaker B:When you need a third party or when now is not the time because you're too angry to see straight or you need to gather data.
Speaker B:Okay, avoid.
Speaker B:But don't avoid it forever if it needs to come up.
Speaker B:And the other dangerous when overused style is competing.
Speaker B:And that is to take the mo walk in with a modus operandi of I will win and you will lose.
Speaker B:And this is the person who hates to be wrong and often can't apologize easily.
Speaker B:And I am describing myself in many ways because I'm pretty competitive and I think I was raised to be that way.
Speaker B:So now I look for opportunities to accommodate more.
Speaker B:But a good personality assessment is a wonderful, a wonderful idea and a great investment in oneself.
Speaker B:Something that is valid and reliable statistically.
Speaker B:And then you go through with a trained practitioner to help hopefully to help you understand your personality report.
Speaker B:Life changing.
Speaker B:Life changing for me the first time I did it about 15 years ago.
Speaker B:And now we make sure Every coaching client does take our personality assessment so we can see the strengths and weaknesses we're dealing with.
Speaker A:I used to tell my staff I was wrong once.
Speaker A:1973, August 13th.
Speaker A:So if it happens again, if it happens again, I'll let you know.
Speaker A:But funny they say what happened that day?
Speaker A:I'm like, I don't remember.
Speaker A:But it was something.
Speaker B:I know I want to know what happened that day.
Speaker B:That's when you rolled through the stoplight instead of a full and complete stop.
Speaker A:Keith, that was it.
Speaker A:Exactly one thing, the one thing I've ever done wrong.
Speaker A:But so I'm curious as you think about this book and I think every organization could benefit from a book like this.
Speaker A:I always wonder how do we best take a book like this into a organizational setting and best utilize it to improve communication.
Speaker A:You have like a suggestion of if you're going to do this as a group, how would you do that?
Speaker B:Oh sure.
Speaker B:Well, we love designing book workshops and so I've put on our website.
Speaker B:Our website will probably be in your show notes but it's that gladioconsulting.com that French last name G L A D I E U x like X Ray consulting.com and folks could go there.
Speaker B:And just a few months ago we created a companion guide, myself and my designers and we've got that out there for free on the website currently.
Speaker B:And it takes you through how you can apply what you're reading to your own life for each chapter.
Speaker B:Another way to do it in a group would be everyone choose one exercise.
Speaker B:10 short chapters, choose one exercise, try it out in your own life, come back to the next Monday morning meeting or your next training time together and go around the room and simply share.
Speaker B:Here's the exercise.
Speaker B:Here were the results that opens eyes and you learn a lot from your co workers just by speaking what exercise you undertook.
Speaker A:How would you handle this in a corporation setting or organizational setting where the leader is a bad communicator but you want to help them to grow?
Speaker A:Because I know we, we all maybe know we need to do this, but the person who needs to be the one to lead the spearhead, this is really bad at it.
Speaker A:But how do we communicate to him he's really bad or heard that she's really bad at it.
Speaker B:I would look for some one on one time with that leader and I would share what I observed and I would offer steps so that that person could begin to immediately improve their reputation and their skill set.
Speaker B:You need both credibility and a strong skill set.
Speaker B:And if I could gain Their trust.
Speaker B:And usually that comes pretty easy because my motives are good.
Speaker B:You know, I really care about their success and I think they can really tell.
Speaker B:I might ask them to make apologies or a verbal admittance of some weaknesses that they are working on.
Speaker B:And I was just today coaching a CEO at a medical practice.
Speaker B:And they have become aware of their shortcomings and how they've interacted with employees.
Speaker B:Hasn't always been picture perfect, of course.
Speaker B:And this person is now working into conversation.
Speaker B:Hey, I'm in coaching and I'm getting a goal plan every month.
Speaker B:So you're going to see some new behaviors from me because I realize I need to grow too.
Speaker B:And I just know how.
Speaker B:I know how it feels to be an employee.
Speaker B:When someone with more organizational power is willing to admit they have things to work on, I'd follow them anywhere.
Speaker B:And so that person is starting to realize, oh, after I told employees that I am getting homework and working on me and I want feedback, it changed the tenor, the tone, or the vibe of that workplace.
Speaker B:And it has to be sincere because whether you're 4 years old or 104 years old, you can always.
Speaker B:There's, there's often a feeling.
Speaker B:Maybe not always, but there's often a feeling when someone is trying to pull the wool over your eyes.
Speaker A:So you.
Speaker B:I think I would go for, I'd go for one on one, of course.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Because that's a heart to heart conversation.
Speaker A:I think that's important.
Speaker A:And I think again, having the courage to communicate even with people who are above you is a big part of your book.
Speaker A:Right, right.
Speaker B:It is.
Speaker B:It is.
Speaker B:They need feedback too.
Speaker B:And if you do it with a sincere intention to make the relationship better or customer service better or the workplace better, and you can state that intention, it's going to help you along through a tough conversation, as is remembering if you're complaining about anybody else's leadership style, communication, whatever that is, ask yourself, is that ever me?
Speaker B:Do I sometimes have that weakness?
Speaker B:And if then you see that in yourself, verbalize it.
Speaker B:I know, I do this too.
Speaker B:Right Is how I put it.
Speaker B:So here's what I'm doing to get around it.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So you have four hidden challenges.
Speaker A:Give us those four challenges and kind of give us a little summary of those four.
Speaker B:Sure we have.
Speaker B:In my practice, I've seen people hide from risk and that's when they're afraid to look.
Speaker B:Let us see who they are.
Speaker B:They're afraid to take risk.
Speaker B:Perhaps they've been punished for it.
Speaker B:Perhaps they haven't had an Easy time in childhood.
Speaker B:It would be nice if there were people around us that were helping us to see our strengths.
Speaker B:We don't all have that privilege and blessing so we can start hiding from risk.
Speaker B:Defining to be right is when you're so darn sure that nobody's even going to try to tell you differently because you make it impossible to do so.
Speaker B:You will not say, h, you might be right or I might be wrong.
Speaker B:The third hidden challenge I write about in the book is rationalizing the negative.
Speaker B:And in that chapter, I take on pessimism.
Speaker B:And I ask our readers to think long and hard if they identify as pessimists or if others would identify them in that way, to perhaps at any age in life, make a change and make a choice about optimism.
Speaker B:It's not the easy choice, but we do need to spend some time, you know, visualizing positive outcomes that might be possible, or we may never see those positive outcomes, you know, and plus, it can just be a real drag to live with or work with someone who is very aligned with pessimistic thinking.
Speaker B:So I offer some solutions in the book to help readers deal with that in loved ones or co workers and in themselves.
Speaker B:And the fourth hidden challenge that I write about is called settling for good enough.
Speaker B:And that's.
Speaker B:It's okay sometimes, I mean, we all have to just choose what is satisficing, what will get me through here.
Speaker B:When we're going through tough times, it's hard to really give 110%.
Speaker B:But we can't always be settling for good enough if we want to leave any kind of legacy in our families and in our teams as communicators.
Speaker B:So I offer some steps for people to stop settling for good enough and choose some things that matter to work towards.
Speaker A:I love that.
Speaker A:How is writing this book and all the research you did, they put behind this book, change your own communication style and personal growth?
Speaker B:Well, I, you know, I've laughed a bit because I must have been out of my mind to say I'm going to write a book called Communicate with Courage Keith for the rest of my life.
Speaker B:Now I have to communicate with courage or I'm the lady who wrote the book.
Speaker B:So it's certainly helping me look at myself and where I'm not brave and some of those places within.
Speaker B:I am just not quite ready to face my failings and others.
Speaker B:I'm ready to go do the hard parts that really make relationships better.
Speaker B:And I'm always asking for another chance for grace.
Speaker B:I'm asking for feedback because I figure If I can get others working along with me to help me get better, and I'm helping them get better at this, we're all going to win.
Speaker B:So I don't know if that's a straight answer to your question or not.
Speaker B:How has it changed my life?
Speaker B:It's required me to be brave personally and professionally because now pretty much everybody knows about the book.
Speaker B:And it's required me to become a better time manager because thankfully the book has, I think it's got 11 literary awards to date.
Speaker B:And that's fantastic and so exciting for myself and my team.
Speaker B:But it does mean more interviews and more time paying attention to the book.
Speaker B:At the same time, I want to be teaching and training and coaching just as much as I always was.
Speaker B:So there's a bit of sort of I feel like I'm raising a book and it's two years old now.
Speaker B:And I'm also managing my consulting and training practice.
Speaker B:So I've, I've had to practice good time management.
Speaker A:So let's talk about your consulting.
Speaker A:Give me an real life illustration of someone who has benefited from your consulting and become a better communicator.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:Well, this morning's I have two coaching sessions before this interview and they both ran about 90 minutes.
Speaker B:And that's, that's about where we like them.
Speaker B:It's a deep discussion of what's going well and what could be better in one's work life.
Speaker B:And the first was with a high ranking CEO who is finding their voice in dealing with challenging board members who aren't likely to take responsibility, sometimes don't follow through.
Speaker B:You know how it goes.
Speaker B:Sometimes they get staff worried about things when we don't want them talking to staff about things.
Speaker B:There are just things going on and this person really needed to find their courage and remember that they are just as valuable as anyone else in the room when asking for behavior change diplomatically.
Speaker B:And then the very next session was with someone 40, 30 or 40 years younger who is an administrative assistant.
Speaker B:And that person.
Speaker B:One of their goals for this month was to research different colleges that might be of interest and enroll.
Speaker B:And so we were able to celebrate in the second month of coaching that that was completed.
Speaker B:And we're also looking at some self talk with that person and they're documenting for me and for themselves the kind things they say to themselves and the unkind things.
Speaker B:And then we are going to take that list of unkind self talk and in the next session we'll see what's true and what's not true and we will Cross off and let go.
Speaker B:Anything that's from the past or was a past label, stereotype, whatever that might be, that was a sign.
Speaker B:That's not true.
Speaker B:That's not helping their self esteem.
Speaker B:So I guess what I love about the job is all of the different types of humans.
Speaker B:Military, academia, industry, manufacturing, health care, banking, nonprofits, some churches.
Speaker B:Not often, but sometimes churches call and what they're looking for is often personality assessment and one on one or team coaching to help them lead better together.
Speaker B:I love the diversity, I would say, in the clients.
Speaker B:So there's a lot of good that's happening every day.
Speaker B:It's very addictive.
Speaker A:Cool.
Speaker A:Are you discovering that there's a difference with communication based on age?
Speaker A:I.
Speaker A:I noticed that maybe younger people because of the social media aspects maybe struggle with communication a little bit more than an older generation might.
Speaker A:Are you noticing some of that?
Speaker B:I would say I'm noticing less.
Speaker B:I think it's a struggle in some way for all of us.
Speaker B:I'm noticing more differences in personality types and what the different personality styles are challenged by.
Speaker B:And that holds pretty consistent across those.
Speaker B:We could, if we wanted to say there are four main human personality styles.
Speaker B:There's a lot more of course, that goes into a person's way of interacting with the world.
Speaker B:But just to start at that 30,000 foot level, I see more differences among personalities than I do age or gender.
Speaker A:So what whether for personality types, I'm just kind of curious.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:People call them different things, but there are only four.
Speaker B:So it depends on what assessment you're looking at.
Speaker B:I like the terminology.
Speaker B:I believe it's.
Speaker B:Psychologist David Merrill came up with these four and I think of it as driver, kick butt and get things done.
Speaker B:Person expressive.
Speaker B:And the expressive is very relational and gregarious, outgoing, could talk to anyone about anything.
Speaker B:Then there's the amiable.
Speaker B:And all of us have some of all four styles.
Speaker B:But the person who has a lot of amiable in their style, they really seek to keep the peace, keep things cool, make sure everybody's happy.
Speaker B:And analysts value data and metrics very much.
Speaker B:And they're thinking logically and they're thinking process improvement and research.
Speaker B:And so it's really nice is when we do personality assessment with an entire team, whether that's 30 people or three people, we can share the graphs and share the reports and look and understand.
Speaker B:Wow.
Speaker B:The way this person is interacting comes from DNA which is not changeable and largely from upbringing and life experience.
Speaker B:And our upbringing is also not changeable.
Speaker B:Now we can gain and learn New skills.
Speaker B:But it really serves us well to understand at least the four human social styles or personalities and then the pros and cons of having a lot of any of those four.
Speaker A:Yeah, it's been fun.
Speaker A:I've taken every.
Speaker B:Have you?
Speaker B:Well, Myers, you know thyself.
Speaker A:Yeah, that's right.
Speaker A:I keep thinking it's going to change, but it never really does.
Speaker B:Um, well, it might be changing a little and sometimes it's that 3% change that can really change your life.
Speaker A:Well, I know I went from a high D and the Myers Briggs to a high I, which was an interesting shift.
Speaker B:But they're related because those are the two most risk taking and go get it styles, the most achievement oriented styles.
Speaker B:So they're very closely wedded, I discovered.
Speaker B:And you're changing the world.
Speaker B:I mean, you know, you don't.
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker B:When you rest, you have a lot of roles.
Speaker A:That's what my wife asked me.
Speaker B:Yeah, well, you know, rest is not our favorite thing.
Speaker B:I'm also, I'm also di or driver expressive.
Speaker B:And I find it hard to watch to go to a movie theater for two hours and watch a movie.
Speaker B:My mind is like, you know, how many people you could be helping or emailing or you could be writing training.
Speaker B:It's, it's.
Speaker B:Sometimes it's hard for us to be still, right?
Speaker A:Yes, exactly.
Speaker A:I have to put music on so I'm not thinking which is love it, love it.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Or watch some ridiculous TV show.
Speaker A:I'm curious, so what's next for you?
Speaker A:You've gotten this and you're starting to gain momentum.
Speaker A:Is there a new book on Horizon?
Speaker A:There is.
Speaker A:To communicate with love or something else besides courage?
Speaker B:No, because I'm still.
Speaker B:All these ideas that I put in the book, a lot of them were fresh and new from my five year writing process.
Speaker B:And now folks are wanting keynotes and workshops based on the book.
Speaker B:So I'm still getting to know how I want to teach what's in the book and getting the book, the word out about the book.
Speaker B:So I'm not ready to write another book yet, but I am.
Speaker B:I did just hire another team member and she's a real go getter.
Speaker B:And so I think we're going to.
Speaker B:I'm excited to see what my team and I will do this year.
Speaker B:We're out to change lives and change organizations by helping people be better communicators and leaders with humor.
Speaker B:A dose of humor as we look at ourselves.
Speaker A:So like a community, I think the.
Speaker B:Doors, you know, I keep believing that the right clients come around at the right time.
Speaker B:And that has worked out now for almost for at least 20, 25 years.
Speaker B:So, you know, I'm just hoping that the phone keeps ringing, Keith, and that people bring their keep opening their hearts to us and opening their organizations to us so we can come be guides as people learn.
Speaker A:So as a consultant, how would you counsel someone who wants to be a person who communicates with courage?
Speaker A:What would you say are the first steps they need to work on to do that?
Speaker B:Well, we've talked about getting feedback about how you come across.
Speaker B:I would say make sure you, you deeply understand and own your own unique mission statement.
Speaker B:So what do you love to do?
Speaker B:And I know no job is all roses and fun and sunshine, but what do you love to do?
Speaker B:And then who do you serve by doing it?
Speaker B:How are they changed as a result of knowing you?
Speaker B:Once you figure that out, what your niche is, how you're going to contribute, what people will be saying about you at your memorial service, when your body lies down and takes its last breath, what do you want people to say about you?
Speaker B:And then once you know that, then the doors start to open and also fears will start to come up.
Speaker B:And that's when we begin to try to articulate or define the fear so that we can work through it.
Speaker B:And hopefully with a good a mentor, a guide or a coach can help with that or a good friend, an accountability partner.
Speaker B:So live for your Know your mission and if you'd like help figuring out what your unique mission is, back to our website gladio consulting.com hit free tools one of the tabs at the top and down, a bunch of one to two page.
Speaker B:I think they're fun and colorful, e fillable, downloadable.
Speaker B:We want to be a service that's one of the things you can grab from our website, the unique mission exercise.
Speaker B:And that keeps me going through good times and bad to remember what I've said about myself is my unique mission.
Speaker B:And some people have more than one and we wear different hats.
Speaker B:But thinking generally now as a communicator, what will you be known for?
Speaker B:And that will open some doors.
Speaker A:So you've segue into my other favorite question.
Speaker A:What do you want your legacy to be?
Speaker B:Oh, I think I want it to be what it is becoming and that is that I see people's potential.
Speaker B:I will meet them where they are.
Speaker B:I will hold them to fair, high standards and hopefully welcome their feedback in the process.
Speaker B:It's an honor to be on the journey with the people I get to help they let me see their heart, I let them see mine.
Speaker B:And we celebrate the wins that come up from the goals in communication.
Speaker B:And we try to laugh about the failures, realizing the failures are the best stories when you're teaching somebody something later.
Speaker B:And also they help you.
Speaker B:If you're going to take a risk and fail as a communicator, it's certainly going to help you empathize with the rest of us who take risks and mess up.
Speaker B:I had a pretty large keynote last month.
Speaker B: There were: Speaker B:Grant Writers, a grant writers, the Grant Summit, Grant Writers Conference.
Speaker B:And the keynote was really going very well.
Speaker B:I got to chat, was doing highlights from each chapter, speaking for a little over an hour.
Speaker B:I got to chapter nine and I think it was that Denver air, being the mile high city, all of the dryness of living inside the conference center for several days, I don't know.
Speaker B:But I lost my voice completely and I was embarrassed.
Speaker B:I tried it.
Speaker B:It didn't sound good.
Speaker B:It's being broadcast also online to people who paid to receive the keynote.
Speaker B:And I remember I turned my back just for a second to the audience, usually a no, no.
Speaker B:And I sort of shook my hands up at the sky.
Speaker B:I just wanted them to know.
Speaker B:And also I was thinking, guardian angels.
Speaker B:Guardian angels.
Speaker B:Do you not see me in this suit, in these heels with all of these people?
Speaker B:Some angel, maybe guardian angel ran up to the stage with a basket of cough drops.
Speaker B:I popped a couple in, took another sip.
Speaker B:This didn't take long.
Speaker B:This was maybe three minutes.
Speaker B:It felt like three hours to me.
Speaker B:And I got half my voice back and I finished and you know, the audience was excited.
Speaker B:I think that I got to the end, but it sure wasn't what I planned.
Speaker B:And, and I think of myself as a pro.
Speaker B:And I was shocked that my voice gave up on me.
Speaker B:We can't, we can't prevent these things from happening.
Speaker B:But it's going to make me a better teacher and more empathic when I'm working with someone who fears public speaking.
Speaker B:Right, right.
Speaker A:Exactly.
Speaker A:Been there.
Speaker A:So I love to ask you this as well.
Speaker A:Where can people connect with you again to make sure we can find you and get some of your, get your book, Communicate with Courage.
Speaker A:Where can I buy that?
Speaker B:Everywhere, happily.
Speaker B:It's available on Amazon and Book, you know, every bookseller that you might be a fan of, you can go to that bookseller.
Speaker B: -: Speaker B:My business card says eight days a week because I love the Beatles and I love rock and roll, but also because it's okay to call outside of I definitely feel like I am pursuing my passion.
Speaker B:So 8 to 5 doesn't apply very often.
Speaker B:And then I do a newsletter and it's pretty fun, I hear to receive.
Speaker B:I think people are enjoying it.
Speaker B:I always include a music video that ties into communication somehow and I write it four times a year and you can sign up for that.
Speaker B:It's called Breakdown, named after a Tom Petty song.
Speaker B:Actually it's called Breakdown and that's available on the website along with back issues that people might enjoy the free tools I think they can go to links to research and links to articles and small things that can help with a job search or managing a conflict or working on listening skills or writing or speaking.
Speaker B:Well, we try to put good stuff in there for free every quarter.
Speaker A:That's awesome.
Speaker A:As we wrap up our phenomenal conversation, what key takeaways you want to leave with the audience from our conversation?
Speaker B:I want to remind everyone that there's no one that you're going to meet in this lifetime that is more or less valuable than you at the soul level.
Speaker B:At least that is my deep belief.
Speaker B:And once we get that down that we're all in this journey together here to to improve and better ourselves.
Speaker B:Celebrate our strengths, celebrate our failures because we were brave to take a risk, lift others up and we start to see ourselves as equally valuable, a lot of those communication fears will fall away.
Speaker A:Well, Michelle, thanks so much for what you do and helping us be better communicators.
Speaker A:So continue the hard work of making us all learn to communicate with each other better.
Speaker B:You too.
Speaker B:I'm such a fan of your work.
Speaker B:Keep it up.
Speaker A:Thank you.
