Less Hustle, More Clarity: Rethinking Growth with Federico Malatesta
Most professionals think growth requires doing more: more hours, more tasks, more goals. But what if real progress is actually about shedding the stories holding you back?
On today’s episode, Federico Malatesta shares his journey from managing a $40B investment portfolio to coaching leaders through deep identity shifts.
We dive into why external obstacles are rarely the real problem—and how reframing your internal story opens up entirely new possibilities.
Key Takeaways:
🔹 Perception over Activity: True transformation is a shift in how you view your situation, not just an increase in output.
🔹 The Power of Letting Go: To step into a new season, you often have to relinquish old self-conceptions.
🔹 Actionable Direction: How coaching creates a forward-looking roadmap to navigate complex life changes.
💬 Are you clinging to an identity that no longer serves your future goals?
Links referenced in this episode:
Transcript
What if the biggest obstacle to your growth isn't your circumstances, but the story you're telling yourself about them?
Speaker A:What if transformation isn't about doing more, but seeing differently?
Speaker A:Today's guest went from leading a $40 billion investment portfolio to helping people reframe identity, making sense of change, and live with clarity and coherence.
Speaker A:And here's the challenge.
Speaker A:What if the life you're trying to build requires you let go of of the version of yourself you've been hanging onto?
Speaker A:Welcome to Becoming Bridge Builders, a podcast where we connect faith life and leadership, building bridges between where you are and where God is calling you to be.
Speaker A:I am your host, Reverend Dr. Keith Haney.
Speaker A:And today we're exploring a powerful and deeply human topic.
Speaker A:How identity evolves through change and how we step into transformation with clarity and purpose.
Speaker A:Joining me today is Federico Malatesta, founder of FM Transformational Coaching.
Speaker A:Federico's work brings together executive leadership, neuroscience, narrative theory, lived experience to help people interpret their context, act with coherence, and translate insight into meaningful, lasting results.
Speaker A:Before this, he served as chief Investment officer for a $40 billion energy portfolio, where he learned the discipline of decision making at the highest levels.
Speaker A:Today, he brings that same rigor to the inner work of transformation.
Speaker A:Originally from Rome, Italy, Federico now lives in Texas at the Arta Ranch, a place where reflection meets reality and transformation is grounded in the grit of daily life.
Speaker A:Federico, welcome to the show.
Speaker B:Hi, Keith.
Speaker B:Very nice to be here.
Speaker B:Real pleasure.
Speaker A:I'm so glad to have this conversation with you.
Speaker A:I love talking about coaching and transformation and helping leaders be better.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:So it should be a phenomenal conversation.
Speaker B:Looking forward to it.
Speaker A:So, Federico, your journey is both impressive and intriguing.
Speaker A:What led you from the world of global finance into the work of transformational coaching?
Speaker B:Well, I had what I always wanted.
Speaker B:It was the perfect job, a job I've been dreaming my whole life.
Speaker B:And three years into this job, my company merged with another company.
Speaker B:And it was a big transition for all the people involved, and I had a very large team.
Speaker B:What was happening is that I noticed that the junior manager were coming to me after work, worried about how this transformation, how this transition was impacting their life.
Speaker B:It wasn't about business.
Speaker B:And so I was very lucky that I had very good coaches in the past.
Speaker B:I also had very bad ones, so I could tell the difference.
Speaker B:And as this kept progressing, I realized that maybe coaching would have been an avenue at some point.
Speaker B:And when I decided to leave the company, I did some consulting work for a short time, but then realized that coaching really was what I wanted to do next.
Speaker A:Yeah, I've had bad coaching too, and I know what it feels like.
Speaker B:Exactly.
Speaker A:So tell us a little bit about what good coaching is, because I know for, for those of us who've had bad coaching, we, we know that experience, but we don't.
Speaker A:We don't always find those people who really understand coaching and really help take us to that next level.
Speaker B:Yeah, I think the.
Speaker B:So first of all, I think for people, it's a good idea to.
Speaker B:To have an understanding of what is coaching, what is therapy?
Speaker B:Because that is one of the quick questions, questions we get asked all the time.
Speaker B:And so therapy look at something that happens in the past to explain the present.
Speaker B:And therapy is essential when somebody has real health issue, serious depression, serious anxiety, any kind of medical disorder.
Speaker B:For that you need a therapist.
Speaker B:It's a much deeper inquiry into what has happened to you and how to heal before moving forward.
Speaker B:Coaching clients are healthy.
Speaker B:They have questions about aspects of their life.
Speaker B:And interesting.
Speaker B:Usually the question they come to the code, which is not the real question.
Speaker B:The real question you find out after a while.
Speaker B:And so what you focus in coaching is really what are the next steps?
Speaker B:Where do we gonna go from here?
Speaker B:What kind of roadmap we can create for you to have a more fulfilling life.
Speaker B:So when you ask me about what is good coaching?
Speaker B:Good coaching allows for the person to decline, determine their own path.
Speaker B:A bad coach is one that tells you what you should be doing, what is good and what is not good.
Speaker B:I think that is the most essential element of good coaching.
Speaker B:Letting the client be in control at all time.
Speaker A:I love that.
Speaker A:That's a great definition.
Speaker A:For those who have not been coached before, I wonder what coaching is.
Speaker A:I'm curious, as you think about your background and what was it like leading at such a high level, what did that teach you about human behavior?
Speaker B:Oh, great question.
Speaker B:So there is one fundamental thing which I think is often kind of not discussed enough, which is ideology always trump intelligence.
Speaker B:And what do I mean by that?
Speaker B:Is that somebody can have very strong ideas about something that suddenly create a very narrow part of what is possible and what is not possible, what is right and what is wrong.
Speaker B:And maybe these people are highly intelligent.
Speaker B:And actually the more intelligent, the more likely it is that they have very good reason for why something is right and something is not right.
Speaker B:And so dealing at a very high level with very intelligent people, sometimes it's difficult because of their mindset, not because of the capacity to process information.
Speaker A:That's good.
Speaker A:I'm curious as you made this transition from high level leadership to transformational coaching.
Speaker A:How did your own identity evolve through that transition?
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Well, there's elements of our identity which are necessarily linked to what we do.
Speaker B:An important part in growing is understanding that this is only an element of who we are.
Speaker B:It's not the totality.
Speaker B:I mean, identity is a very complex problem.
Speaker B:And it's so complex that as I was studying and I was over the last 10, 15 years, I was trying to to create a framework for my clients.
Speaker B:I actually end up writing a book about it.
Speaker B:The idea is that identity is who you are in relation to the world.
Speaker B:It's not something that you have only in your head.
Speaker B:You only define yourself with others and through others.
Speaker B:And so as you move from one job to another job, you have different type of interaction, both in terms of power dynamics and scope of interaction.
Speaker B:And so what you realize is that you're also something else that you were not before.
Speaker B:So sometimes you leave something, but you gain something else.
Speaker B:Life is constant change.
Speaker B:You know, we always are told, you know, you have to adapt to change.
Speaker B:Change is constant.
Speaker B:It's something we live through every day, in every moment.
Speaker B:And once we realize that, then it's easier not to get stuck to some behaviors or some ideas that were linked to a particular time in life.
Speaker A:That makes sense.
Speaker A:Before we go further, I'm going to ask you my signature question.
Speaker A:I ask every guest, they can't really get through the podcast without answering this question.
Speaker A:What's the best piece of advice you've ever received?
Speaker B:Ooh, I think for me, the best piece of advice I got is leave politics for the afternoon.
Speaker B:I was very interested in politics as a young man, but my mentor, as a family friend at the time, realized that it would not have been necessarily the best path for me as a main activity.
Speaker B:And looking back, he was absolutely right.
Speaker B:And I didn't realize it at the time, but I listened to him.
Speaker B:And so I'm still very interested in politics, but as a hobby, it's not as my core job.
Speaker A:That's probably good.
Speaker A:Politics gets really dicey sometimes.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:I think there is an element of me that really like the business doing things and authorship.
Speaker B:And in politics you are more limited in this sphere, Right?
Speaker B:Exactly.
Speaker A:So I want to get into your ADE process.
Speaker A:One of the frameworks you developed is ADE process for listeners who.
Speaker A:Can you walk us through what the ADE process stands for and how it works?
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:So this is a process that I somehow translated from the business I used to run.
Speaker B:And so the first three stage of the process is this, Assess, define and execute.
Speaker B:And why does it matter?
Speaker B:The first thing when I get a client, but also the first thing I do for myself when I have to face something new is assess where I am.
Speaker B:I have to appraise my position.
Speaker B:The problem with the cell phone industry is that everything becomes a three step process.
Speaker B:No matter who you are, no matter your background, your personal circumstances.
Speaker B:And obvious that doesn't work.
Speaker B:So the first thing is appraise where you are, what is you as an individual in this particular moment in time.
Speaker B:Then the second step define is define the direction where you want to go.
Speaker B:You know, there is a big difference between motion which is doing things, and direction, which is going in a particular direction.
Speaker B:And the objective is less important than the movement towards the objective.
Speaker B:And the third is actually doing the work.
Speaker B:You execute what you have in your mind because until you execute, things remain in your head and they're just simple stories that are not run their course.
Speaker B:And only when you execute them, then they become real.
Speaker A:As you work with people, you're coaching of those three steps, what do you find people get stuck the most on?
Speaker B:Usually they get stuck the most in the passages between appraise and define and between define and execute.
Speaker B:And usually it's one or the other.
Speaker B:There are some people who really struggle to find a new direction.
Speaker B:Other people, they have that direction clear, but they really struggle to move into execute.
Speaker B:They really struggle to release the old stories they have in their head.
Speaker A:Oh, I love that.
Speaker A:And that kind of led me to another question.
Speaker A:I'm thinking about how hard it is to go from awareness to execution.
Speaker A:What actions do you help people move forward through so they don't fall back into old patterns where they keep repeating the old story to keep telling themselves.
Speaker B:Well, I would say the first thing is being realistic about the scale of the enterprise.
Speaker B:And depending what you're trying to do, can be a lot bigger or a lot smaller, but the issues are the same.
Speaker B:You help the client create a roadmap of where they want to go, but you make it very clear that it's going to be a process.
Speaker B:They have to release all stories, create new stories, they have to execute those stories.
Speaker B:And when they execute, they might find they don't like the new stories.
Speaker B:And though they have to go back, redefine direction and move again.
Speaker B:So you help them really with the process.
Speaker B:You give them the space for them to try, make mistakes and refine and move ahead.
Speaker B:Because in the end, Kit, that's what we all do in life.
Speaker B:We try new things, make mistakes, adjust, and try again.
Speaker A:Yeah, I love it.
Speaker A:Can you give me a real life example of someone applying the ADAE process?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So I had a very successful businessman came to me last year.
Speaker B:He was in the mid-50s.
Speaker B:He was thinking of retiring soon.
Speaker B:And he was thinking, okay, what am I going to.
Speaker B:What am I going to do now?
Speaker B:I have no financial issues, and I'm thinking, you know, how can I organize my life to make most of it?
Speaker B:I mean, I'm healthy.
Speaker B:I probably have, like, 30 good years.
Speaker B:How.
Speaker B:How can I make the most of this time?
Speaker B:But as we went to the assess and define phase, we realized that that's not his real concern.
Speaker B:His hidden concern is that he had fear about leaving his position because he was afraid how other people would look at him when he was not the successful businessman.
Speaker B:So there was an element of, how are people gonna treat me?
Speaker B:What are they gonna think about me now that I'm not that?
Speaker B:And so he had yet to develop a different story.
Speaker B:So it was not organizing time, but he had not defined the new stories.
Speaker B:And so we worked for a few months thinking what these new stories could be.
Speaker B:And there were several.
Speaker B:It was not like one overarching story.
Speaker B:So I think that's a great example.
Speaker B:And we went to execute phase.
Speaker B:We had a few ideas that we developed.
Speaker B:And he then, by himself, found exactly what his path was.
Speaker B:There was a little trial and error, but only through that process, he actually could test the water and say, yeah, that feels right.
Speaker A:That's good.
Speaker A:Because I'm curious what happens to people?
Speaker A:And you probably have a lot of people in this area when they realize their story no longer serves them, the old story to keep telling themselves.
Speaker A:So how do you help them adapt to, hey, there's a new story, a better story, that if you embrace this new story, your life would be different?
Speaker B:Well, first of all, they have to find the new stories.
Speaker B:So I am just creating the space for them to find a new story.
Speaker B:The other important point, which is as important is that.
Speaker B:So there is this verb in Italian which is called tramontare, which there's not an exact translation, but it would be to sunset.
Speaker B:And the idea is that there are some things that have their own life and then they end.
Speaker B:And the end is not a failure.
Speaker B:It's just simply what nature calls it.
Speaker B:And so we know that at the end of the day, the sun set.
Speaker B:And once you know that, you know we're okay with it.
Speaker B:We understand that it's going to be night, and we understand the sun will rise again tomorrow.
Speaker B:But when we look at our story, sometimes we think there is a black hole at the end.
Speaker B:And so the process is to say look is not a failure.
Speaker B:It's not the fact that a story was good or bad, that a story.
Speaker B:You had a story because it was serving you at some point in time for some reason.
Speaker B:And now it's a question, what serves you now?
Speaker B:You know, and sometimes the bridge is small, and sometimes the bridge is very large.
Speaker A:That's a beautiful picture.
Speaker A:I'll remember that because I'm a very visual person.
Speaker A:That's a nice, nice way to kind of talk about the sunrise of one story and the rising of another story.
Speaker A:I love that.
Speaker A:That's great.
Speaker A:Thank you.
Speaker B:You're welcome.
Speaker A:I'm curious, tell us a little bit about the Arthur Ranch experience.
Speaker A:Because it's something that you're doing, something really powerful there, bringing people into an environment where transformation is lived and not just discussed.
Speaker A:Why was that so important to you?
Speaker B:Well, so the, the long story short is that I fell in love with horses about 10 years ago.
Speaker B:I didn't know anything about horses and I came here to the us, Fell in love and decided I couldn't live without horses.
Speaker B:So I set up a small ranch in Montana and then decided to move to Texas and set up bigger ranch here so I could live with horses.
Speaker B:And horses have a coaching role, which is a very particular role because horses react to their environment in a much clearer manner than we do.
Speaker B:They will let you know what they think about you very quickly, all the time.
Speaker B:And so that can really be used as a catharsis with clients.
Speaker B:You take a big CEO, somebody who very alpha personality, and you put it with the horses.
Speaker B:If the horses doesn't see his behaviors as convert, he's not going to answer to you, no matter how he screams.
Speaker B:You know, there's no money involved, There is no title how the horse likes you or not.
Speaker B:But from a personal point of view, living with horses is really a way of experimenting life on a different level.
Speaker B:It really grounds you in daily activities that you cannot escape.
Speaker B:You know, like I wake up in the morning, go and check on the horses, go and feed them, go and check in the evening.
Speaker B:Horses have a rare ability to hurt themselves in all sorts of way, no matter how safe their environment.
Speaker B:So something always happens.
Speaker B:And it's not all intellectual activity where you can say it, I'll do it tomorrow.
Speaker B:Something happens, you have to be there now you have to feed them.
Speaker B:Now you don't feed them in two days and this is a really grounding activity, especially as somebody at me that spends a lot of time in my head with my clients.
Speaker B:This is kind of the mirror side of life where change is really constant and where you have to adapt to the daily life.
Speaker A:I love that.
Speaker A:I love the fact you say horses can determine, can tell a lot about you.
Speaker A:So keeping that in mind, what do horses teach us about ourselves?
Speaker A:What have you discovered as you work with people who.
Speaker A:Maybe a CEO gets on a horse who thinks he's this.
Speaker A:What did the horse help is helping teach those people about themselves.
Speaker B:The main thing the horses teach is that they let you know when your communications and the stories in your head don't match.
Speaker B:They understand very quickly if the way you behave is congruent with who you.
Speaker A:Are.
Speaker B:Because they don't know you.
Speaker B:They only respond to what they feel, to what they perceive.
Speaker B:And they're prey animals, so they always concerns about predators.
Speaker B:And the more you're in tune with your, with your own stories, the more you behave around them in a certain way and they will respond to that.
Speaker B:So it's a very quick feedback that would happen in a coaching session.
Speaker B:You know, a client can lie to you even unconsciously.
Speaker B:They can tell you wonderful stories and you only find out after three months that, that actually that's not the case with a horse.
Speaker B:It happens sometimes in 10 seconds and so that allows for better conversation much sooner.
Speaker A:That's good to know.
Speaker A:I should take people out, put them on a horse.
Speaker B:But we don't work on a horse.
Speaker B:We work on the ground.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:You, you want to, you don't want to put people on the horse if you're not familiar with riding.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker A:Yeah, I know.
Speaker A:I've seen some bad shows about that.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:I'm curious, as you take people out of their normal environment and put them into this space, what have you noticed about the way people adapt in that space?
Speaker B:There are realizations that come much faster.
Speaker B:They suddenly think, well, I had this story, but it's not playing out and I don't understand why.
Speaker B:And they cannot use the same status, the same techniques that they use in their daily life.
Speaker B:And so suddenly they're left alone on their own device.
Speaker B:And that teaches you a lot.
Speaker B:It's like throwing somewhere in the sea.
Speaker B:Either you swim or you don't.
Speaker A:That makes sense.
Speaker A:So I'm curious, what's the biggest challenge people face when they're transitioning to a new season of life that you've discovered?
Speaker B:It's letting go of the old story that usually is the biggest issue and the fear of executing a new story.
Speaker B:What if this doesn't work?
Speaker B:What if I fail?
Speaker B:That is the big even.
Speaker B:Sometimes they are clear the direction they want to go, but they're saying, what if it doesn't work?
Speaker A:Yeah, you talk about a lot about clarity.
Speaker A:Tell us difference between clarity and control.
Speaker B:You know, when.
Speaker B:When we talk about clarity and control, we have to define these words very well, because sometimes it's easy to overgeneralize.
Speaker B:We never have full control, even if we think we do, and we never have full clarity.
Speaker B:So, you know, my favorite definition of leadership is moving forward under uncertainty and assuming responsibility.
Speaker B:And so we have to move forward in life even knowing that we don't have control, or certainly not full control.
Speaker B:And sometimes we don't have clarity.
Speaker B:And what I mean, you might know which direction you want to.
Speaker B:You.
Speaker B:You want to go.
Speaker B:And this is one type of clarity, but you don't know what is going to happen.
Speaker B:And so you cannot be certain that what you're doing will succeed.
Speaker B:And so managing action with limited control and sometimes even limited clarity, it's.
Speaker B:I think it's a sign of adulthood.
Speaker A:Yeah, that makes sense.
Speaker A:What would you say to someone who feels stuck about or uncertain about their next step?
Speaker B:The first thing would be appraise and define the direction you want to go.
Speaker B:You know, especially for strivers, especially for people who are very active, motion is their default path.
Speaker B:Okay, I'm going to work harder.
Speaker B:I'm going to do more.
Speaker B:I'm going to try something else.
Speaker B:Everything at once.
Speaker B:By defining why I'm doing this is the key element which is often missing.
Speaker B:You know, you can say, you know, Bernie Madoff, the fraudster, he was doing a lot of motion.
Speaker B:He had goals.
Speaker B:Was the direction he was going ethical?
Speaker B:No.
Speaker B:And so asking this type of question before, it's really helpful to determine that the ideas that you have actually are gonna bring you where you wanna go.
Speaker A:Yeah, that makes sense.
Speaker A:So, Federico, I'm gonna ask you my other favorite question that no guest can escape without answering.
Speaker A:What do you want?
Speaker A:Your legacy.
Speaker B:Oof.
Speaker B:That's a big question.
Speaker B:I would think in terms, what would matter to me is what is the legacy of the people I interact with?
Speaker B:So if I can somehow influence their legacy, that would be the biggest gift I could receive.
Speaker A:Yeah, that's good.
Speaker A:I like that.
Speaker A:So now we're going to do some lightning round questions.
Speaker A:A daily habit that grounds you.
Speaker B:Oh, my.
Speaker B:Morning stretching.
Speaker B:Every morning going, stretching and then going to feed the horses.
Speaker A:I love that.
Speaker A:A book that shaped Your thinking?
Speaker B:Ooh, War and Peace by Left Tolstoy.
Speaker A:Oh, I haven't heard that one yet.
Speaker B:Yeah, I'm a big fan of Russian literature, so that that book changed my life.
Speaker A:Okay, so here's a tough one now.
Speaker A:Rome or Texas?
Speaker B:Oh, that's a difficult one.
Speaker B:Well, Rome made me, but I'm in Texas now and I hardly ever travel, so I would say Texas now.
Speaker B:There you go.
Speaker A:You just made all the Texans happy.
Speaker A:One word that defines transformation,.
Speaker B:Authorship.
Speaker A:Morning or late night Thinker.
Speaker B:Thinking late night for sure.
Speaker A:Interesting.
Speaker A:I'm not good.
Speaker A:Late night thinking.
Speaker A:I'm good.
Speaker A:Nightlight.
Speaker A:Sleeping.
Speaker B:But not, you know, like I do.
Speaker B:Like the hard stuff I do during the day when I have to really do heavy work.
Speaker B:But usually I get my best ideas, you know, after everyone is gone to bed and the dogs are sleeping and the horses are fine and then I have time for myself.
Speaker A:That makes sense.
Speaker A:Something people misunderstand about high performers.
Speaker B:They think that success is always rewarding.
Speaker B:But there is a phenomenon which I call success inflation, which means very high achieving people.
Speaker B:Over time, success starts meaning less and actually becomes a constraint of what else they could do for rather than a reward.
Speaker A:That makes sense, a value you won't compromise.
Speaker B:Personal responsibility.
Speaker A:A word that describes your current season.
Speaker B:Harvest.
Speaker A:Interesting.
Speaker A:Harvest.
Speaker A:All right, so Federico, where can people find you, learn more about you and connect with you on social media?
Speaker B:Well, people can find me federicomalatesta.com so it's my full name there they can find information about my coming book which is called lying to you, the self help Delusion.
Speaker B:And it's about all the stereotype that self help keeps promulgating just to make money.
Speaker B:They also find all of my writings on my website, substack medium, LinkedIn and for anyone going through pivot transformation and they're looking for just to have a chat about what direction they can go, they can contact me on the website.
Speaker B:All the information is available there.
Speaker A:Well, Federico, this has been a rich and thoughtful conversation.
Speaker A:Thanks for sharing your insight and your journey.
Speaker A:If you're listening today and you're navigating change, wrestling with identity, or longing for clarity in your next step, I encourage you to explore Federico's work at FM Transformational Coaching and learn more about the Artha A Ranch experience.
Speaker A:Links will be included in the show notes.
Speaker A:And for everyone listening, transformation isn't about everyone else or something else.
Speaker A:It's about becoming who you are truly created to be the bridge between you.
Speaker A:Where you are now and where you're going is what God has called you.
Speaker A:To do through awareness and understanding and intentional action and faithful preservation.
Speaker A:Federico, thanks so much for being a guest on the show.
Speaker B:Thank you so much, kid.
Speaker B:It's been a real pleasure.
